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Topic # 51387 28-Nov-2009 01:05
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Hi,

Someone was asking for help regrading setup Win7 MCE hardware acceleration of Freeview|HD.

I found the tool I recommend users use for setting up codecs
http://www.codecguide.com/windows7_preferred_filter_tweaker.htm

I recommend the following method

Start with no codecs installed

Install the following
Haali Matroska splitter - http://haali.su/mkv/
PDVD8 H264 Codec - google HDPACK 2.2
FFDShow tryouts (32bit) - http://downloads.sourceforge.net/ffdshow-tryout/ffdshow_beta6_rev2527_20081219.exe

Now reboot

Install
Filter Tweaker - http://www.codecguide.com/windows7_preferred_filter_tweaker.htm

Choose
MPEG2 -> FFDSHOW
H264 -> PDVD8
All AUDIO -> FFDSHOW

Setup FFDSHOW audio depending on your audio connection (spdif passthru vs' stereo downmix etc)

Reboot Again

Now you should have smooth live TV




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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25211 posts

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  Reply # 277146 28-Nov-2009 06:22
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Why are people moving away from the Microsoft DTV codec that natively does H.264?

Personally I think this delivers superior results to the PowerDVD one and there is no setup required in any form to use MCE with hardware acceleration - the Microsoft one just works straight out of the box.



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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 277172 28-Nov-2009 10:12
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sbiddle: Why are people moving away from the Microsoft DTV codec that natively does H.264?

Personally I think this delivers superior results to the PowerDVD one and there is no setup required in any form to use MCE with hardware acceleration - the Microsoft one just works straight out of the box.




Totally agree - there is NO need for third party codecs to watch Freeview.

The Microsoft Codec delivers faster, cleaner resuls on channel changes as well.

The only thing you need additional codec packs for are MKV's.  All of the currently available solutions have shortcomings, either on the local machine or on extenders.

The only codec pack to use Media Foundation so far has been the Divx technology preview, however this still has issues with both sound (DTS, DD) and aspect ratios's.

I'd certainly use them all with caution.

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 277181 28-Nov-2009 10:54
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+1 stick with the MS codec for Freeview HD.

Now MKV support that works properly without screwing up everything else, that would be good.







Media centre PC - Case Silverstone LC16M with 2 X 80mm AcoustiFan DustPROOF, MOBO Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H, CPU AMD X2 240 under volted, RAM 4 Gig DDR3 1033, HDD 120Gig System/512Gig data, Tuners 2 X Hauppauge HVR-3000, 1 X HVR-2200, Video Palit GT 220, Sound Realtek 886A HD (onboard), Optical LiteOn DH-401S Blue-ray using TotalMedia Theatre Power Corsair VX Series, 450W ATX PSU OS Windows 7 x64



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  Reply # 277214 28-Nov-2009 13:05
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Well his PC had major issues and stuttering with TV3 using the MS codec,
When i changed to PDVD it fixed his problems.

His hardware was AMD780G / Onboard HD3200 / Kuma Core CPU / 2GB RAM / 1366x768 TV

I'm not sure what version of Win7 MCE he is using, maybe it's an earlier build with an earlier version of the MS Codec?




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 277228 28-Nov-2009 14:43
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Thats an ATI driver issue - not a MS codec issue...

Windows 7 MCE changed from using DirectShow to Media Foundation. You've basically undone that.

This obviously created some issue with drivers (specifically with ATI), however changing away from it breaks alot of what Windows 7 offers, and will create problems on extenders etc etc etc. Your basically fixed something with duct tape, it might hold together for a while, but eventually its gonna break again...

Media Foundation is here to stay...I'd strongly suggest people get used to using it...

I'd also suggest Windows Update will break what you've done at some point in the near future. There's a couple of bugs remaining (aspect ratio not sticking) which if MS decide to fix, the DirectShow route will get nothing, or break completely.

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  Reply # 277268 28-Nov-2009 17:53
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ATI chipsets and/or drivers are simply buggy when it comes to supporting interlaced H.264 content.

I went through all issues before Freeview DVB-T launched where I realised there were decoding issues with the test transmissions. I dumped ATI and went to NVidia that simply work flawlessly.

Recently I built up a desktop machine using a Gigabyte 780G board and under Windows 7 see some pixelisation and picture issues that are not present within the TS when it's played on NVidia hardware.

There are people out there who believe the well known ATI issues are fixed - I'm certainly not convinved they are and would certainly not recommend an ATI chipset for DVB-T in New Zealand.



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  Reply # 277304 28-Nov-2009 20:56
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This obviously created some issue with drivers (specifically with ATI), however changing away from it breaks alot of what Windows 7 offers, and will create problems on extenders etc etc etc. Your basically fixed something with duct tape, it might hold together for a while, but eventually its gonna break again...


From my understanding of HTPCs this should have no effect on extenders, as the extenders do the decoding.  It is not fixing it with duct tape either, it's just using a different codec.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


483 posts

Ultimate Geek

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  Reply # 277315 28-Nov-2009 21:56
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kiwijunglist:

This obviously created some issue with drivers (specifically with ATI), however changing away from it breaks alot of what Windows 7 offers, and will create problems on extenders etc etc etc. Your basically fixed something with duct tape, it might hold together for a while, but eventually its gonna break again...


From my understanding of HTPCs this should have no effect on extenders, as the extenders do the decoding.  It is not fixing it with duct tape either, it's just using a different codec.


Until Windows 7 you were right.  However Media Foundation changes everything.  Vista MCE used DirectShow for everything.  Windows 7 now uses Media Foundation. 

Your not just changing the codec, your changing the entire underlying presentation layer.   All future development, including hardware drivers, third party software etc will be now developed around Media Foundation being used.  You can argue this all you like but thats how it is.  Case in point - look at where Divx is placing their MKV effort - Media Foundation.

Given there is now only one extender that works with h.264, ie the 360, my experience covers them all...

Extenders now use the Media Foundation layer for playback as well.  If you use a Media Foundation friendly codec/splitter for MKV's for example the Divx technology preview - playback on the extender will be smooth, and you will retain the ability to ff/rw skip.   The 360 continues to do the decoding.

If you use a non Media Foundation/DirectShow codec pack ie Shark codec pack the video will play, but it gets transcoded, looks like crap, and breaks every time you touch a remote button.

Not saying someone couldn't get it to work better, but nobody is going to develop for something that doesn't exist anymore, other than a few die hard, stuck in yesterday hackers...

You really gain nothing by replacing the codecs, I'd actually argue the MS one is alot better than the PowerDVD one (I've used both).  All you do, as others have suggested is skirt around ATI's struggle to get their drivers stable.




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  Reply # 277350 28-Nov-2009 23:30
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I thought the 360 did the decoding, therefore the codec setup in Win7 is irrelevent. You state the 360 continues to do the decoding, so I don't really follow your logic. However i have no knowledge of media foundation, so I'm sure you are right even though I don't actually understand. Main purpose of the post, is for people who are not currently getting any joy with the default Win7 MCE setup




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


25211 posts

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  Reply # 277413 29-Nov-2009 10:07
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kiwijunglist: I thought the 360 did the decoding, therefore the codec setup in Win7 is irrelevent. You state the 360 continues to do the decoding, so I don't really follow your logic. However i have no knowledge of media foundation, so I'm sure you are right even though I don't actually understand. Main purpose of the post, is for people who are not currently getting any joy with the default Win7 MCE setup


Windows Media Foundation totally changes the way extenders are supported and is a huge step forward.

Using Foundation Library supported software such as the latest Divx MKV support not only gives fully hardware accelerated MKV support under Windows7 but also gives you MKV playback on the Xbox360, something that was previously not possible.

If you start hacking this stuff you will break things. ATI is still borked - a bit of sticky taper isn't going to change this.




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  Reply # 277421 29-Nov-2009 10:50
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you still miss my point.




HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  Reply # 277422 29-Nov-2009 11:14
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kiwijunglist: you still miss my point.


I don't believe I do. I don't think you get my point. You're implimenting a duct tape fix to get around ATI's broken hardware and/or drivers.

Microsoft have changed the way their extenders work and the way codecs are implimented in Windows with the launch of Foundation Library in Vista and significant enhancements in Windows7.

Codecs need to support Foundation Library if they want to work properly in Windows7. The changes to extender support are a fundamental move away from the extender doing all the decoding which was how things worked in the past.

What you are doing might work now. Is is a hack however and is almost certainly guaranteed to break things in the future, particularly if you're using MCE and extenders.






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  Reply # 277426 29-Nov-2009 11:32
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Allow my to quote myself

However i have no knowledge of media foundation, so I'm sure you are right ...  purpose of the post, is for people who are not currently getting any joy with the default Win7 MCE setup





HTPC: Intel i3-2100 / 12GB RAM / AMD HD7750 / 480 GB SSD / 58TB Storage / MediaPortal / MadVR / Win10
AVR: Pioneer Elite SC-LX87 220W 9.2 Ch AVR
Speakers: Wharfedale Jade 7 Fronts / Jade 2c Center / Jade 5 Rears
Subs: iNuke 3000dsp 3000W proamp with 4x 15" JBL Sealed Subs
Display: Samsung 60" UA60H6400 LCD TV
Accessories: Gefen HDMI Detective with splitter


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  Reply # 277471 29-Nov-2009 14:57
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sbiddle: Why are people moving away from the Microsoft DTV codec that natively does H.264?

Personally I think this delivers superior results to the PowerDVD one and there is no setup required in any form to use MCE with hardware acceleration - the Microsoft one just works straight out of the box.




I can't speak to using MCE to play H.264 content (I tend to use PowerDVD) but the MF setup in Win7 has caused me great grief and ran that tool a while ago to change some of the filter settings to DirectShow than MF.

This is because I use avisynth, megui and x264 to encode my backed up BD content and MF broke that completely. Handbrake still works but it has little flexibility in handling filters.

So as the OP noted, I am using Haali and FFDShow to process H,264 content.




System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR running on Gigabyte Brix, Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Logitech Revue, Pioneer AVR, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen. Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 receiver, Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player, Samsung 4K player

 


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https://plus.google.com/+laurencechiu

 

 


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  Reply # 278978 3-Dec-2009 11:07
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I know I'm jumping into the water a bit late, but what is the upshot of the original question?

What is the best codec setup for W7, to include MKV and Bluray playback?

I have been using the Shark codec pack and PDVD9, with a reasonably good result. But if there is an alternative, I'd be happy to know about it.

I prefer to run a minimum of addins in my system because the less I got is the less that can break.

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