Cloudflare to stop hosting 8chan

Forums › IT Pro and developers › Cloudflare to stop hosting 8chan

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

2853 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2293156 9-Aug-2019 19:17

It's easy to find examples of suppression of free speech being misused, and revealing the bias of the platform:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-08-08/mitch-mcconnell-reelection-campaign-twitter-account

Smix

111 posts

Master Geek

Trusted

#2293271 9-Aug-2019 21:13

What does free speech have to do with Cloudfare providing services??? If you use their service, and they don’t like what you’re doing, they can kick you out.

Various governments around the world offer free speech as a right, but a company doesn’t have to offer you that same right. You can use their service in a way that fits within their rules, or not at all. If you don’t like it, use another service. If no company wants to offer you service because of your content, maybe the problem is you.

Now if the government started blocking the site, then I may be more inclined to jump on the censorship bandwagon.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79253 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2293273 9-Aug-2019 21:19

Smix: What does free speech have to do with Cloudfare providing services??? If you use their service, and they don’t like what you’re doing, they can kick you out.

Various governments around the world offer free speech as a right, but a company doesn’t have to offer you that same right. You can use their service in a way that fits within their rules, or not at all. If you don’t like it, use another service. If no company wants to offer you service because of your content, maybe the problem is you.

Now if the government started blocking the site, then I may be more inclined to jump on the censorship bandwagon.

QFT.

Free speech is a political construct, something to prevent governments repressing thought and discourse.

Private companies can do whatever they feel like doing. If you feel affected, there's nothing preventing you finding some other place to spew your hate. Until you run out of places.

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2293274 9-Aug-2019 21:35

https://www.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-criticism/

Others have said it far better than I can.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79253 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2293277 9-Aug-2019 21:46

@lias say all you want about this topic. If anyone comes here on Geekzone and spouts shit like that about their rights on the land, how the whites are being oppressed and how they have to fight for the future of their kids who otherwise will die because of immigrants, I will kick their asses out of here - like I have done before.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2293279 9-Aug-2019 21:52

shk292: It's easy to find examples of suppression of free speech being misused, and revealing the bias of the platform:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-08-08/mitch-mcconnell-reelection-campaign-twitter-account

I could not find the video in question. It's difficult to form an opinion without it.

Changing topic slightly - I found a different one where a protester outside McConnell's house says on the audio: "Just stab the m***********r in the heart, please" to no-one in particular. Hypothetically in NZ is that a (legal) offence of some kind? I assume it is not in USA.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2293289 9-Aug-2019 22:16

Lias: https://www.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-criticism/

Others have said it far better than I can.

Thanks for posting that. It's worthwhile. I reached halfway through.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2293450 10-Aug-2019 11:21

freitasm:

@lias say all you want about this topic. If anyone comes here on Geekzone and spouts sh1t like that about their rights on the land, how the whites are being oppressed and how they have to fight for the future of their kids who otherwise will die because of immigrants, I will kick their asses out of here - like I have done before.

I'd have much less issue with you doing that than I do with Cloudflare doing it, simply because Cloudflare is basically vital internet infrastructure. Geekzone, awesome as it is, is not.

PS: I can't quote your post without changing that word because apparently you wrote your filtering so it doesn't apply to you but does to me when I quote you :-P

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2293454 10-Aug-2019 11:40

People are dying as a direct result of unimpeded free speech on white extremist sites. The shooters themselves have said so. They take their inspiration from these vile rantings. That simple fact should matter more than the 'freedom' to keep spewing such poisonous hatred. You can twist and turn the free speech argument any way you like, but the lives of innocent bystanders matter more to me than someone's ability to scream about their stupid racist obsessions. And as has been pointed out, even that so-called 'right' isn't being restricted. They are simply having their Internet megaphone taken away. Good on Cloudflare and others for doing that. It should have happened sooner.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Lias

5589 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2294162 11-Aug-2019 14:27

Rikkitic:

People are dying as a direct result of unimpeded free speech on white extremist sites. The shooters themselves have said so. They take their inspiration from these vile rantings. That simple fact should matter more than the 'freedom' to keep spewing such poisonous hatred. You can twist and turn the free speech argument any way you like, but the lives of innocent bystanders matter more to me than someone's ability to scream about their stupid racist obsessions. And as has been pointed out, even that so-called 'right' isn't being restricted. They are simply having their Internet megaphone taken away. Good on Cloudflare and others for doing that. It should have happened sooner.

Hundreds of thousands of people die every day. Many of them from preventable things. The number of children who die each year from preventable disease and malnutrition is in the tens of MILLIONS. Yes it's sad that some people are killed by madmen, whether those madmen be serial killers, racists, jihadists, or whatever, but the numbers killed by them are literally a drop in the ocean. Yet people are quite happy to throw our civil liberties away for the slim chance we might be able to lower that drop in the ocean even further, but do diddly squat to prevent the other mass deaths. It's not about the number of deaths, or the horror of what's being said/done, it's about people wanting to feel safer in their beds at night, and being willing to trade away everyone's civil liberties to do it because it's easy to do so when you are not one of those people.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2294233 11-Aug-2019 16:43

Since you don't mind a few unnecessary deaths to prove a point, I imagine you must enjoy driving the wrong way down the motorway. Why not? You are just exercising your right to make up your own rules.

Try thinking about what the term civil liberties actually means. The word civil forms the basis of civilisation. It means society, citizenry, how people work together to create something that is greater than the sum of its parts. The opposite of this is jungle, where monkeys all run around doing their own thing, regardless of how it affects others. In fact, monkeys don't do this. Even they understand that being part of a group gives them a better life than they would have on their own.

Liberty is freedom. Freedom from want, freedom from brutality, freedom from the law of the jungle. People live together in society because it gives them far more freedom than they could ever achieve on their own. This is what civil liberty really means. It is a balancing act, in which the right of each individual to be a naughty monkey is weighed against the interests of the group as a whole. By its nature, civil society depends on agreement. Not everyone has to agree to everything all the time. But there has to be broad agreement on shared values. When that agreement breaks down, so does society, and so do all the benefits it brings.

My civil liberties and yours depend on the restraint of others. Those incapable of engaging in civil discourse need to have that imposed. I like my civil liberties. I'm certain you do, too.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

18435 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2294274 11-Aug-2019 17:51

How on earth is 8chan or others like it of any value to humanity? They add nothing and if they vanish no harm is done so let them vanish.

tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2294291 11-Aug-2019 18:47

Rikkitic:

People are dying as a direct result of unimpeded free speech on white extremist sites. The shooters themselves have said so. They take their inspiration from these vile rantings. That simple fact should matter more than the 'freedom' to keep spewing such poisonous hatred. You can twist and turn the free speech argument any way you like, but the lives of innocent bystanders matter more to me than someone's ability to scream about their stupid racist obsessions. And as has been pointed out, even that so-called 'right' isn't being restricted. They are simply having their Internet megaphone taken away. Good on Cloudflare and others for doing that. It should have happened sooner.

Free speech doesn't mean free hate, free murder, free bank robbing, free punch you in the mouth. I guess most of us can live with this, it grates me that some people see free speech to be freedom. Free speech means that I can say things that matter to me, it doesn't mean I can say things to screw other humans.

There is a bar. Decency, happiness, respect, freedom to be different. Freedom to hate needs to be captured and removed.

tdgeek

29743 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2294302 11-Aug-2019 19:02

What F's me off is we are mature. We are past the world wars, yes there are religious hot spots, but today, the globe its dealing with hate. Trump, and other far right hate Governments purporting to be cool. One I was a kid, I had Maori friends. Racism was something I wasnt aware of. Older, I see racism. Now I see diversity. Now as in since Trump got in, I see hate and white power. Whats up with this? I am a doco fiend, and the more I learn about what amazing things we humans can do, then I look at politics and wonder what is really going on. It is a disconnect. The concept of happiness, operation, the greater good, seems to have ended. Now we have climate change to manage, how will that go?? Look at any other animal species and its fine, but not with us

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2294714 12-Aug-2019 11:57

The slippery slope argument

I am intrigued when free speechers start rabbiting on about the slippery slope. There seems to be a blind assumption that as soon as you limit the freedom of extremists to vomit their toxins into cyberspace, this somehow inevitably leads to tyranny and thought control. In fact, the tyrants are those who insist on unrestricted free speech rights, but that is another argument.

Somehow, the slippery slope does not apply to the increasing numbers of madmen (so far mainly men) who take inspiration from racist rants and see this as some kind of license to go on killing sprees. There is no question about this connection. It has been well-established. The madmen themselves say so.

Random mass slaughters are increasing in magnitude and frequency. The odds of being mown down while going about your daily business, though still minuscule, are increasing. This is the very definition of a slippery slope. The more it happens, the more that other brain-scrambled killers want to jump on the bandwaggon.

The notion that restrictions on extremist speech are a slippery slope, but the growing numbers of attacks directly resulting from that extremist speech are not, is a logical fallacy you could drive an army through. Anyone who seriously thinks this is either uninformed, lacking in sense, or possibly, just immature. Underdeveloped brains tend to think in absolutes. As we grow, we become more capable of perceiving nuance.

The slippery slope argument is a false one. It does not take a lot of nuance to see that.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

1 | 2 | 3 | 4