VDSL Performance & Tuning

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#983168 10-Feb-2014 09:19

Hey I'm super fresh to VDSL, we have a connection at work and I'm just trying to see if we can get more out of it. Our line stats as follows, just wondering if we have the requirements for 17a, and if Telecom will let you switch to 17a? Thanks!
DSL Stats

sidefx

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#983171 10-Feb-2014 09:26

no chorus won't switch you, dlm has to do it, and you have to be within a certain distance of the cabinet. Based on you attenuation you're too far, i think 6 or 7 db is the highest we've seen anyone get 17a.

Edit: that is quite a good sync rate for your attenuation, i'd be pretty happy with that. Only other option would be snr tweaking, but that's only possible with certain modems and i doubt will give you a huge increase as your sync is already quite good.

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macuser

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#983173 10-Feb-2014 09:32

sidefx: no chorus won't switch you, dlm has to do it, and you have to be within a certain distance of the cabinet. Based on you attenuation you're too far, i think 6 or 7 db is the highest we've seen anyone get 17a.

Edit: that is quite a good sync rate for your attenuation, i'd be pretty happy with that. Only other option would be snr tweaking, but that's only possible with certain modems and i doubt will give you a huge increase as your sync is already quite good.

I'll check how far we are from the cabinet, I think we're actually pretty close, like 100-150m, but I'll need to ask. Who is DLM? Yea the internet is fast, just want to see if we can get more out of it without any additional cost :)

sidefx

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#983175 10-Feb-2014 09:40

macuser: I'll check how far we are from the cabinet, I think we're actually pretty close, like 100-150m, but I'll need to ask. Who is DLM? Yea the internet is fast, just want to see if we can get more out of it without any additional cost :)

It's the length of the cable that matters, not physical distance. It might go up the street then double back so be a lot longer than the straight line physical distance, and there's nothing you can really do about that. Your attenuation would seem to indicate you're quite a bit further. i assume they installed a master filter when they installed it? dlm is dynamic line management, an automatic system that tunes your connection, have a read of samF's first post in this thread :)

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hio77

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#983332 10-Feb-2014 14:22

unless cable fault increasing your attenuation. no way are you getting 17a.

BMarquis:

We have a number of conditions that must be met for your line to be switched to a 17a Spectrum profile.
If your line is on the 17a spectrum profile, but the spectrum between 8Mhz and 17Mhz is not being used, I'd be looking at your CPE. it shouldn't report 17a unless the DSLAM is providing that, and we run 8b and 17a on independant profiles.

As for the question of 'what allows a line to be on 17a':
The current bandplan is 8b (goes without saying!)
The line is shorter than 350 meters, which is an electrical length in the 5530 Network Analyser of DLM is in operation on that line
A Bandplan switch hasn't occured in the last 90 days (to stop bouncing between 8b+17a, while still allowing re-evaluation as/when required)

Hopefully this helps answer some questions?

your line is also not the cleanest out there, but not tooo bad.

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hio77

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#984690 12-Feb-2014 04:26

SilverwolfNZ:
hio77: at 11 attenuation, ild toss at you have no show of hitting 60. your too far for a 17a profile.

So man.. Are you really sure about that 17a profile? Check this out..

Old is left and new is right, it literally just changed to 17a a few minutes ago

well, im dumbfounded. DLM has done it again. given all our expectations the finger..

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=90&topicid=139355&page_no=2#984687

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SamF

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#984691 12-Feb-2014 04:30

WTF!!??

hio77

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#984692 12-Feb-2014 04:34

SamF: WTF!!??

exactly what im saying.

as i pointed out in the thread, it looks like hes on the funny linecards, the broadcom ones, which seem to have completely different profiles to the usal Ikanos..

thats the only way i can possibly explain it..

it is the 6.0 firmware too, which does read a little higher for the attenuation, but still, never that bad. im just.... dumbfounded...

to think, i was about to go to bed, now im sitting here trying to find some sort of logical explanation that doesnt end in DLM is a utter prick.

only other option is the guy had someone with access tinker with his profile like HITMAN? but then that does not seem to be the case.

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6297a1679f9

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#984694 12-Feb-2014 06:12

Oh WoW..... DLM sure does like to do weird things huh?

sidefx

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#984711 12-Feb-2014 07:53

/me picks jaw off floor.

(This is just DLMs way of teasing everyone else ;-) )

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kentnl

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#984714 12-Feb-2014 08:06

Also, look at that "attainable upstream" figure. 54M Upstream? WUT? Attainable upstream is .. greater than attainable downstream O.o, limited only by the DSLAM.

I haven't seen that before.

I wonder if it will readapt frequencies somehow to use more available spectrum for downstream instead of just having unusued upstream spectrum?

Or is VDSL not quite that flexible =p

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BMarquis

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Chorus

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#984760 12-Feb-2014 09:14

hio77: impressive.. your on one of the odd dslams that has a Max of 71680 rather than 70000, we have seen odd things happen with them..

Hmm, all of our profiles have a max of 71680, not 70000. They are pushed to dslams from a single source based on templates and should all be identical.
Perhaps the fritz misreports in some cases? Have seen many, many cases int he past of modems mis-reporting figures.
the 54mbps upstream value here shows that too.

hio77: 11db attenuation, purely from DLM is a first. even if your fritz is miss-reporting (seen the newer firmwares show a 1~3db higher attenuation.

as you can see in your spectrum, distance is clearly a factor for you (note the DL 3 block, tapering off.)

i base my full figures from a chorus employee, along with what we personally have seen in the VDSL section of snap..

by all respects, im hella surprised your on 17a, but congratulations!

My post should be read carefully:
the DLM Choice of 7dB is the ELECTRICAL LENGTH determined by the 5530, not the DSL attenuation. They are different figures (calculated on different frequencies I believe)

e.g, there is a line with:
Electrical Length 6 dB
Attenuation [dB] 10 dB

hio77:as i pointed out in the thread, it looks like hes on the funny linecards, the broadcom ones, which seem to have completely different profiles to the usal Ikanos..

thats the only way i can possibly explain it..

Nah, the profiles are the same across those line cards (i.e the profiles are stored on the DSLAM and used by both cards), there is only 1 set of profiles.
Being different chipsets, they have different performance, but the profiles are identical.

gabesmith

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#984788 12-Feb-2014 09:32

gabesmith: So I now have a good line after some initial glitches I ironed out with Snap and Chorus a while back. I am 150-200m from the exchange and have 7db attenuation and very low CRCPMs being 0.01 and 0.03. I am on 43.4 Mbit/s with 8b profile and what understand to be DLM-1. I feel that DLM has kinda given up on my line after my initial glitches.

I am pretty certain my line should be capable of 50-55 Mbit/s sync in theory.

Do y'all think getting port reset would be a worth while experiment given my stats?

So update I requested a port reset from Snap via email. They came back with "This reset has been requested and you should note the DLM profile reset in the next 24 hours." I have not seen any evidence of a single re-sync during this time on my Fritz. I have replied to them on the ticket asking them to check this with no response yet. Sounds like a phone call to Snap is now required.... I have found in the past a port reset is a noticeable event that will result in a dsl re-sync at the very least. I am also assuming that a port reset will trigger off DLM again as well?

still hopeful of 17a one day.....

stevehodge

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#984904 12-Feb-2014 11:10

BMarquis:
Hmm, all of our profiles have a max of 71680, not 70000. They are pushed to dslams from a single source based on templates and should all be identical.
Perhaps the fritz misreports in some cases? Have seen many, many cases int he past of modems mis-reporting figures.
the 54mbps upstream value here shows that too.

I'm hitting that limit though, so the Fritz would have to be misreporting the actual speed as well as the DSLAM limit. That seems unlikely. Is it possible there is some overhead counted in the 71680 that the Fritz is removing to get 70000?

BMarquis

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Chorus

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#984965 12-Feb-2014 11:46

stevehodge:
BMarquis:
Hmm, all of our profiles have a max of 71680, not 70000. They are pushed to dslams from a single source based on templates and should all be identical.
Perhaps the fritz misreports in some cases? Have seen many, many cases int he past of modems mis-reporting figures.
the 54mbps upstream value here shows that too.

I'm hitting that limit though, so the Fritz would have to be misreporting the actual speed as well as the DSLAM limit. That seems unlikely. Is it possible there is some overhead counted in the 71680 that the Fritz is removing to get 70000?

You'll never hit the DSL line rate (being a layer 1 rate), so the 1.68mbps is probably not noticeable in any practical sense.

If you are sitting on an actual sync rate ("Current throughput on the FB) of 70000, pm me your address I'll look into it.

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