Customs wanting power to force travellers to handover passwords and encryption keys

Forums › ICT Policies and Regulation › Customs wanting power to force travellers to handover passwords and encryption keys

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Ultimate Geek
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#1252492 6-Mar-2015 19:53

Mattmannz:
afe66: My thoughts.

So next month I'm going on holiday and on my spare hard drive will be the DVDs I have ripped to keep the small child content in a foreign land.

We all know ripping DVDs in NZ is illegal.

I would expect that the most common illegal thing you will find on hard drives in nz will not be kiddie porn, it will be ripped movies by very very very large margin, even ones have a physical copy of.

Probably got 50 DVD so 50 cases of breech of copyright at 5k fine each....

So what will Mr Customs officer do....no kiddie porn but the drive is full of illegal movies. Will they do nothing or will I be off to court..

What to do..

A.

Copyright infringement is a civil not criminal issue so Customs won't care.

So why has the New Zealand Government spent millions of dollars (of our money) arresting kim dot com and attempting to extradite him?

afe66

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#1252495 6-Mar-2015 20:01

I have vague memories of one of those fly on wall documentary programs showing customs confiscating bootleg DVD from guy back from Bali....

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Mattmannz

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Ultimate Geek
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#1252496 6-Mar-2015 20:02

afe66: I have vague memories of one of those fly on wall documentary programs showing customs confiscating bootleg DVD from guy back from Bali....

A.

That would be importation for sale which is illegal unlike personal consumption

afe66

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#1252510 6-Mar-2015 20:13

Not sure he was going to sell it.

A couple of bootleg DVDs in your luggage, isn't selling them surely..

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Dratsab

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#1252512 6-Mar-2015 20:31

Mattmannz:
afe66: My thoughts.

So next month I'm going on holiday and on my spare hard drive will be the DVDs I have ripped to keep the small child content in a foreign land.

We all know ripping DVDs in NZ is illegal.

I would expect that the most common illegal thing you will find on hard drives in nz will not be kiddie porn, it will be ripped movies by very very very large margin, even ones have a physical copy of.

Probably got 50 DVD so 50 cases of breech of copyright at 5k fine each....

So what will Mr Customs officer do....no kiddie porn but the drive is full of illegal movies. Will they do nothing or will I be off to court..

What to do..

A.

Copyright infringement is a civil not criminal issue so Customs won't care.

Mattmannz: This statement is not quite correct.

Mattmannz

471 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1252513 6-Mar-2015 20:36

That applies to the importation of products that may be counterfeit, knock offs, copies, replicas etc.

Customs are not interested in personal movie or music downloads that are legitimately available in NZ.

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afe66

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#1252517 6-Mar-2015 20:57

Isn't a ripped dvd a copy ?

50 .mp4 movies on my hard drive which have no DRM on them, are not legally available here. (Unless you can show me whether I can buy them).

A.

Mattmannz

471 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1252518 6-Mar-2015 21:02

JWR:
Mattmannz:
afe66: My thoughts.

So next month I'm going on holiday and on my spare hard drive will be the DVDs I have ripped to keep the small child content in a foreign land.

We all know ripping DVDs in NZ is illegal.

I would expect that the most common illegal thing you will find on hard drives in nz will not be kiddie porn, it will be ripped movies by very very very large margin, even ones have a physical copy of.

Probably got 50 DVD so 50 cases of breech of copyright at 5k fine each....

So what will Mr Customs officer do....no kiddie porn but the drive is full of illegal movies. Will they do nothing or will I be off to court..

What to do..

A.

Copyright infringement is a civil not criminal issue so Customs won't care.

So why has the New Zealand Government spent millions of dollars (of our money) arresting kim dot com and attempting to extradite him?

Kim dot Com was a commercial arrangement. The reason the New Zealand government spent all that money is because they are being told what to do by the US. We are their arse puppets.

qyiet

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#1252559 7-Mar-2015 01:03

Mattmannz:
qyiet:
Mattmannz: You don't have to hand over every password, only those necessary for inspection so only login and encryption keys.

...

I think you are exaggerating the extent.

I'm thinking about what would happen if one of our execs was asked to turn over their password to their laptop. It's domain joined, so to access it they would have to give them their domain username and password. Well guess what that is the same username/password for our VPN, our WiFi, our Webmail, Our File Servers, our internal Web Servers, and any other PCs that exec is allowed to access. So no, I don't think its an exaggeration to point out that when they take a password to access the laptop they get far more than that.

Qyiet

He calls and let's you know his password is compromised and you immediately disable his account until he can change the password. In theory they might be able to access other data but I think that's a pretty long bow.

That may happen, but a much more likely scenario is the exec dosnt think of all the things that will require a password, because they are all automatic when they login with their work laptop. So the exec just heads on their merry way thinking that the customs officer has access to their laptop, but that dosnt matter because the exec still has the laptop. I then never get the call you described.

Warning: reality may differ from above post

loceff13

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#1252566 7-Mar-2015 07:49

JWR:
Mattmannz:

Copyright infringement is a civil not criminal issue so Customs won't care.

So why has the New Zealand Government spent millions of dollars (of our money) arresting kim dot com and attempting to extradite him?

Because we have an agreement to do so, it goes both ways

Dulouz

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#1252578 7-Mar-2015 09:24

I have no problem with this. To the best of my knowledge customs already has the right to search through your bags. It has happened to me on a number of occasions in different country's including NZ. This really just seems to be a logical extension of the existing law. And as more and more of our life becomes digitized, I see no reason why digital property should not be treated the same as physical property.

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Batman

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#1252580 7-Mar-2015 09:31

when they search you bags, they look AT your items and dispose things you can't bring into the country, confiscate things that could be used to incriminate you for criminal activity or find things that suggest you shouldn't be let into the country.

when they look through you digital items, do they just look through, and confiscate criminal items? that's all they should do. the law should specify those boundaries. no copying, no taking the whole computer for a year, no installing stuff etc

but if you have 1,000,000 files in 1TB of data ... how are they going to do that ...

JimmyH

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#1252582 7-Mar-2015 09:42

In a past life I had a secondment involving working with sensitive information, for which I had to hold a security clearance. We were supplied with laptops with encryption by the employer. It was a dismissable offence for me to disclose the information in question, or even discuss it with someone who didn't have a clearance. It was also a dismissable offence to give anyone my password. Certainly my market value would have been severely damaged.

I am pretty sure that a run of the mill Customs officer doesn't hold such a security clearance.

Therefore, I think I would have been in a world of hurt if I had handed over the password to anyone.

(but no, put the tinfoil hats away, the job was nothing to do with any spook agency).

SaltyNZ

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2degrees

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#1252589 7-Mar-2015 10:17

JimmyH:
Therefore, I think I would have been in a world of hurt if I had handed over the password to anyone.

Well, again, as pointed out before, your contracts with your employer don't trump the law. If your employer dismissed you for giving your password to Customs as demanded, then you would be right back there the following Monday, with an apology and compensation. Having said that, your problem is real, and your best interests probably don't coincide in any meaningful way with how the government chooses to interpret the best interests of the state.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Sideface

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#1252614 7-Mar-2015 11:25

afe66: Isn't a ripped dvd a copy ? ...

Legally a DVD is a legal copy, and a ripped DVD is an illegal copy of a legal copy.

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