Department of Internal Affairs to Implement NZ Internet Filter

Forums › ICT Policies and Regulation › Department of Internal Affairs to Implement NZ Internet Filter

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Snap Internet

#309780 22-Mar-2010 12:47

From our CEO:

Snap does not support mandatory Internet censorship. However, we understand and realise that filtering can complement sand-box Internet for environments with specific requirements and we therefore will make a filtered Internet service available to our clients if the desire is there. Implementing this change is a relatively simple task, although we still have concerns surrounding implications for Internet performance and the ongoing expansion of the censorship programme.

Cheers.

Snap

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freitasm

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#309793 22-Mar-2010 13:48

RalphFromSnap: From our CEO:

Snap does not support mandatory Internet censorship. However, we understand and realise that filtering can complement sand-box Internet for environments with specific requirements and we therefore will make a filtered Internet service available to our clients if the desire is there. Implementing this change is a relatively simple task, although we still have concerns surrounding implications for Internet performance and the ongoing expansion of the censorship programme.

Cheers.

I hope you implement your own optional filtering platform, because the DIA platform is only optional for the ISPs. Once the ISP join in then it's mandatory for all its users - no exceptions...

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thomasbeagle

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#309794 22-Mar-2010 13:55

Mauricio - well, that's still up to the ISPs, unless there's something in the contract between the DIA and the ISP. As far as I know, there's nothing stopping an ISP from accepting the BGP feed from the DIA and using it for some of their clients but not others.

However, I talked to some ISP engineers who were saying that it would increase the cost from "not much" to "lots". This was because adding the DIA routes to their existing routing infrastructure isn't particularly hard - but if you only want some clients to get it, you need to upgrade your routing infrastructure to support two versions of the internet - the normal one and the one with the DIA's new routes. This will require more hardware, time, etc, and therefore it's not that likely that anyone will do it.

jpollock

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#309798 22-Mar-2010 14:10

Not being an ISP worker, I'm talking BS. However,

Wouldn't it simply be a case off offering a class C with filtering and a class C (or smaller) without it? Since the majority of addresses are dynamic, then the change is a switch on/off of the device and allocation of a new IP addr.

Statics are harder, but you could say that if they want a filtered net account on a static address they can either swap addresses or pay more (or vice-versa).

How hard is it to have custom routes for subsets of an address space?

---
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thomasbeagle

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#309799 22-Mar-2010 14:13

jpollock - I'd love to give you a definite answer but I'm also not an ISP engineer.

The InternetNZ mailing list archives has some of the discussion in them. There was an argument about whether it would be easy or hard, and eventually the consensus was that while it wouldn't be difficult, it would be expensive as a lot of infrastructure would have to be replicated/expanded to cope.

yuxek

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#313496 31-Mar-2010 15:16

would this filter apply to satellite internet? if a person has a satellite on their roof and uses a nz satellite isp, would this bypass the internet filter?

freitasm

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#313504 31-Mar-2010 15:26

Not if the ISP joins the filter.

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#324539 29-Apr-2010 09:14

See why I always said the DIA filter is not to be trusted? From http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/28/music-industry-spoke.html:

""Child pornography is great," the speaker at the podium declared enthusiastically. "It is great because politicians understand child pornography. By playing that card, we can get them to act, and start blocking sites. And once they have done that, we can get them to start blocking file sharing sites".

The venue was a seminar organized by the American Chamber of Commerce in Stockholm on May 27, 2007, under the title "Sweden -- A Safe Haven for Pirates?". The speaker was Johan Schlüter from the Danish Anti-Piracy Group, a lobby organization for the music and film industry associations, like IFPI and others... "

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Aaroona

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#324541 29-Apr-2010 09:17

Oh god. That is EXACTLY why this filter is a bad idea.

Here we come North Korea!

shiroshadows

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#324546 29-Apr-2010 09:28

Dun dun dunnnnn. Riots. Riots. Riots.
Heading towards a One World Government

amanzi

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#324820 29-Apr-2010 16:39

freitasm: See why I always said the DIA filter is not to be trusted? From http://www.boingboing.net/2010/04/28/music-industry-spoke.html:

What does that have to do with NZ and the DIA's filter?

freitasm

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#324824 29-Apr-2010 16:44

My argument is that once a filter was implemented we would have a lot less control over its use. I always said that - just read my previous blog posts.

Current rules may apply to the DIA filter, but a future government could be more inclined to accept lobby claims and start filtering other types of content. The link/comments just show that lobby organisations are well aware of opportunities in this area.

Once you give up some rights to the government it's harder to take it back.

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#324830 29-Apr-2010 16:53

freitasm: Current rules may apply to the DIA filter, but a future government could be more inclined to accept lobby claims and start filtering other types of content.

A future government could implement wide-ranging internet censorship with or without today's CAI filtering. I don't really fall for the whole "slippery slope" line.

Screeb

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#324957 29-Apr-2010 20:48

amanzi:
freitasm: Current rules may apply to the DIA filter, but a future government could be more inclined to accept lobby claims and start filtering other types of content.

A future government could implement wide-ranging internet censorship with or without today's CAI filtering. I don't really fall for the whole "slippery slope" line.

It's about getting the public used to the idea. If the government decided to implement "wide-ranging" censorship right away, then there would be a big public backlash. Obviously the people who want the censorship believe in the slippery slope (see Mauricio's link). The "slippery slope" in terms of getting used to something bad over a long period of time (ie gradual erosion of rights) is a very well known concept.

VFNZPaulBrislen

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#324965 29-Apr-2010 21:01

There's a world of difference between the filter operated by the DIA and the kinds of things you're all talking about.

I'm well versed with the slippery slope argument, but the DIA filter is operated under the Films, Classifications act and can ONLY be applied to objectionable material. So nothing else. It would take an act of parliament to broaden the reach of the filter and that's the top of the slippery slope.

As it stands today the DIA filter in NZ is quite different to the Aussie filter or to any of the others. It's built in a different, very simple way and sites are added to it manually - that is, two DIA investigators have to agree that an image is objectionable and only then will it be added. It's not an IP based filter or similar, it's based on two people agreeing the image is illegal in NZ and blocking it accordingly.

There is no slow down of other sites because it's site specific. Slow down occurs when it's an IP based filter and you're looking at a legitimate site near the one that's blocked (same IP range for instance).

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

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