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  Reply # 712047 5-Nov-2012 09:24 Send private message

BarTender:
Ragnor:
raytaylor:
BarTender:

I would love to know where you found that nugget out from,


I am trying to remember myself - was under the impression it was considered general knowledge. I think i read it on one of those telecommunication history of nz websites - but a quick google search isnt showing me anything.

Will have another look tomorrow.


Looks like it was ~5 years, depending on what you count as the start...

2005
October: Bank debt that financed the construction of the network was repaid.

Refer to:
http://www.southerncrosscables.com/home/company/company


I still find it somewhat hard to believe that the returns from the cable paid for itself in such a short period of time. I would assume all investors would have chucked in a fair chunk of change to get it started and they may have topped up the bank loan with other profits as large loans like these are never helpful on the balance sheet.

I would have thought it was more like a 10-15 year investment sounds right to me. Plus you need to take into the account the operational support and upgrades they have and are still doing to increase capacity.

There was a great webcast I found a while ago which seemed to indicate it had only just been paid off. But as usual I can't find it now.

To me its the lack of usage in NZ that is the biggest killer. Even with VodaClear promising $91mil or whatever it was as their cornerstone user they couldn't make it fly to me speaks volumes about the sort of capacity requirements needed to justify the new cable. Home users are what drives demand and NZ's population is too small and we have far too many poor people due to our low wage economy. Change all those and it may be a good idea. Otherwise we should take on KL and IN and become the worlds call center. Since at least some of us a good grasp of English..... Nek Minnit....


Forget everything about the data needs for New Zealanders; this is about sending data out of the country, on the back of it we get free data coming into the country; read the article. This is due to our high amount of renewable energy which very few countries in this world can claim; and will be a killer for this industry in many places in the future. It is a great plan that even the government should get behind; but now that Kim Dotcom has his name on it they will not touch.

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  Reply # 712055 5-Nov-2012 09:34 Send private message

Dratsab:
DonGould: We've been paying way to much for telecommunications for decades and it's time we changed that so that household can spend money on food for kids.

Massively off topic but...get real.

I constantly deal with people in the "lower" demographic. Not a lot of them have broadband connections. Mr .com's proposal would mean nothing to them unless it was truly free.

Back on topic
I don't really buy into the argument about him not having access to capital to become a major funder of this. He has an immense amount of contacts with significant money and a large amount of support around the globe. With him fronting a campaign I don't believe it would be unpossible to attract a decent range of potential investors.


I think that is part of my point..

If we take into account that there are 1.6mil or so existing broadband subscribers.  And I would say the split between home / business would be say 25% business and 75% home.  So that would make 1Million broadband subscribers give or take a bit.

Then... Take into account there are 1.6Million houses in NZ.... And then take that 270k households in poverty number that has been thrown around, which to some degree I agree with, but you being on the front line would be more informed than I to comment.

To me that means there is pretty much complete market penetration of fixed broadband into most homes that can afford it give or take a bit (oldies living on their own who don't care about BB etc).

So, lets assume we have fixed broadband penetration.  The only way to increase our numbers of broadband users is either to give the existing ones unlimited broadband.  But how many of them would use / need that, I would guesstimate 10% tops... The other end is how else can you grow you subscriber base.

Either increase the population by 1 mil or so, and / or lift the current ones at the bottom of the heap out of the situation they are in... So they already have fed their kids living in a warm & dry home and can spend money on computers and educating the misfortune spawn.

So you may argue the arguments are completely separate, but I do see a link between growing the subscriber base and thus justifying the international capacity needed for a second cable over and above the existing cable that has plenty of capacity left, and still growing above and beyond it's demand due to upgrades on the cable.

benneg: Forget everything about the data needs for New Zealanders; this is about sending data out of the country, on the back of it we get free data coming into the country; read the article. This is due to our high amount of renewable energy which very few countries in this world can claim; and will be a killer for this industry in many places in the future. It is a great plan that even the government should get behind; but now that Kim Dotcom has his name on it they will not touch.


Still think that's crazy talk... since we can't change the speed of light and NZ is at least 120ms round trip to the US, and that's not taking into account any switching delays.
So unless the internet moves from TCP to UDP and doesn't care about latency (ha!).. It's crazy talk.
Would probably be cheaper to put a satellite into space and pump it that way if latency wasn't an issue.  But it is.. So all that talk is just crazy talk of having a NZ "worldwide" Datacenter.




Check out my Mobile Cell Site Google Maps KML Files in my blog.
Now using Google Fusion Tables or Address Lookup or GPS using Smartphone
I update it on a monthly basis automatically from RSM.

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  Reply # 712069 5-Nov-2012 09:44 Send private message

BarTender: [snip]

Check out my Mobile Cell Site Google Maps KML Files in my blog.
Now using Google Fusion Tables or Address Lookup or GPS using Smartphone
I update it on a monthly basis automatically from RSM.


[OT]
Interesting links in your signature but they are dead. (Well, the KML and google maps links in your blog are dead anyway)

Simple fix or outdated sig?

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 712088 5-Nov-2012 10:10 Send private message

All links in his signature work for me.




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  Reply # 712090 5-Nov-2012 10:13 Send private message

freitasm: All links in his signature work for me.


Yep - sorted... I went to the first link (blog) and the links on there are broken... sig links are fine.

Already chatted to him about it.

Cheers -N

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  Reply # 712096 5-Nov-2012 10:22 Send private message

BarTender:
Dratsab:
DonGould: We've been paying way to much for telecommunications for decades and it's time we changed that so that household can spend money on food for kids.

Massively off topic but...get real.

I constantly deal with people in the "lower" demographic. Not a lot of them have broadband connections. Mr .com's proposal would mean nothing to them unless it was truly free.

Back on topic
I don't really buy into the argument about him not having access to capital to become a major funder of this. He has an immense amount of contacts with significant money and a large amount of support around the globe. With him fronting a campaign I don't believe it would be unpossible to attract a decent range of potential investors.


I think that is part of my point..

If we take into account that there are 1.6mil or so existing broadband subscribers.  And I would say the split between home / business would be say 25% business and 75% home.  So that would make 1Million broadband subscribers give or take a bit.

Then... Take into account there are 1.6Million houses in NZ.... And then take that 270k households in poverty number that has been thrown around, which to some degree I agree with, but you being on the front line would be more informed than I to comment.

To me that means there is pretty much complete market penetration of fixed broadband into most homes that can afford it give or take a bit (oldies living on their own who don't care about BB etc).

So, lets assume we have fixed broadband penetration.  The only way to increase our numbers of broadband users is either to give the existing ones unlimited broadband.  But how many of them would use / need that, I would guesstimate 10% tops... The other end is how else can you grow you subscriber base.

Either increase the population by 1 mil or so, and / or lift the current ones at the bottom of the heap out of the situation they are in... So they already have fed their kids living in a warm & dry home and can spend money on computers and educating the misfortune spawn.

So you may argue the arguments are completely separate, but I do see a link between growing the subscriber base and thus justifying the international capacity needed for a second cable over and above the existing cable that has plenty of capacity left, and still growing above and beyond it's demand due to upgrades on the cable.

benneg: Forget everything about the data needs for New Zealanders; this is about sending data out of the country, on the back of it we get free data coming into the country; read the article. This is due to our high amount of renewable energy which very few countries in this world can claim; and will be a killer for this industry in many places in the future. It is a great plan that even the government should get behind; but now that Kim Dotcom has his name on it they will not touch.


Still think that's crazy talk... since we can't change the speed of light and NZ is at least 120ms round trip to the US, and that's not taking into account any switching delays.
So unless the internet moves from TCP to UDP and doesn't care about latency (ha!).. It's crazy talk.
Would probably be cheaper to put a satellite into space and pump it that way if latency wasn't an issue.  But it is.. So all that talk is just crazy talk of having a NZ "worldwide" Datacenter.


If you study the current energy situation in the world and the projections for population etc in the next 15-20 years then you will realise that this is a very realistic scenario. The choice will be between having it at a slower speed or not having it  at all. NZ is the perfect place to provide 'some' of the data capacity when it becomes inviable to keep increasing it in the US due to energy demands.

Data centre like those for Google require vast amounts of energy and when you look at countries like the US there is (apart from a very small amount wind and solar and a few new nuclear plants) only fossil fuels to provide the required growth to match the projections. The infrastructure is already stretched to keep up at the moment and will become increasingly so. Demand will drive the price of energy increasingly higher and so there will be difficult choice to be made between the uses of the energy and non critical use may need to be discarded or sent elsewhere. This is what I believe Dotcom is seeing as well.

I guess we will wait and see who is right; but I would be willing to take a bet on it and invest in such infrastructure.

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  Reply # 712126 5-Nov-2012 11:18 Send private message

benneg: I guess we will wait and see who is right; but I would be willing to take a bet on it and invest in such infrastructure.


Well a growing number of New Zealanders agree with you. 

Just this morning I got an email from a supplier saying they're building a new data center.

One thing this whole MegaUpload thing has told people is that we have to stop putting all our eggs in one basket (ie hosting everything in .us).

I agree some applications need speed, but the fact is that many don't.

The servers that simply host all the updates for all the devices in my house don't need speed at all.

US business I suspect will also now be gearing up to make sure they put their content in more than one or two places around the globe as a result of MegaUpload.

I don't know, but I sense that the US government has scared the day lights out of some folk.

That Apple guy was down here recently talking with Dotcom.  I wonder if the likes of Apple are looking hard at their business and wondering if they could be the next target.  They have grown to a point of being bigger than Microsoft and we all saw what DoJ did with MS.

Australia is building data centers right now like they've got a housing shortage right now.  People like Bevan Slattery are really smart, and if he's building data centers then you have to look and take notice.






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  Reply # 712133 5-Nov-2012 11:23 Send private message

DonGould:
benneg: I guess we will wait and see who is right; but I would be willing to take a bet on it and invest in such infrastructure.


Well a growing number of New Zealanders agree with you. 

Just this morning I got an email from a supplier saying they're building a new data center.

One thing this whole MegaUpload thing has told people is that we have to stop putting all our eggs in one basket (ie hosting everything in .us).

I agree some applications need speed, but the fact is that many don't.

The servers that simply host all the updates for all the devices in my house don't need speed at all.

US business I suspect will also now be gearing up to make sure they put their content in more than one or two places around the globe as a result of MegaUpload.

I don't know, but I sense that the US government has scared the day lights out of some folk.

That Apple guy was down here recently talking with Dotcom.  I wonder if the likes of Apple are looking hard at their business and wondering if they could be the next target.  They have grown to a point of being bigger than Microsoft and we all saw what DoJ did with MS.

Australia is building data centers right now like they've got a housing shortage right now.  People like Bevan Slattery are really smart, and if he's building data centers then you have to look and take notice.



If that is the case, why would anybody want to host their data centre in NZ?  We have shown with our actions over the dotcom fiasco that we are quite willing to break the law if the USA asks us. 

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  Reply # 712143 5-Nov-2012 11:31 Send private message

People need to keep in mind re: Intl Fibre.  There is not a lack of capacity on the current infrastructure.  The real issue is the pricing structure is that of a monopoly.  A 2nd crossing will provide pricing competition (also redundancy in case of a fibre cut or equipment failure).

It should be possible for someone with enough cash and a long term perspective to build a 2nd crossing.  They would make their money back in the long term.  Even better if they have alternate revenue streams from the infrastructure.

gzt

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  Reply # 712149 5-Nov-2012 11:39 Send private message

"Key told TVNZ's Breakfast programme that a lot of people had already tried to make the second cable work. "It had a really star-studded cast of people who were prepared to be involved... in the end they couldn't come up with investors that thought it actually made sense." The Government was prepared to underwrite a certain amount to help make the project financially viable[!!!]. Anything was possible, he said about Dotcom's plans.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/7907639/Dotcom-can-invest-in-Pacific-Fibre-if-he-wants-PM

Is this a new thing the PM is saying here or is this known from a while back? It is new to me

and how does the government see the benefits of this project?

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  Reply # 712158 5-Nov-2012 11:46 Send private message

From a while back.

Have plan, send $NZD50m
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  Reply # 712163 5-Nov-2012 11:58 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:If that is the case, why would anybody want to host their data centre in NZ?  We have shown with our actions over the dotcom fiasco that we are quite willing to break the law if the USA asks us. 


Yes and how we've responded so far is that Mr Dotcom is still here.

We've seen the PM go on public television and apologize to Mr Dotcom.

We've seen judges step down from his case.

We've seen the opposition just attack Mr Key over the GCSB.

The FBI's time here is done.  Mr Dotcom will be staying and I suggest to you that Mr Key is mega-pissed at GCSB for having to go on public television and just apologize.

But all of that is not really the point.

Smart business around the world will be taking the message that you have to put your content every where and make sure that any change in public policy can't just compromise your business. 

That's clearly what Mr Dotcom is doing. 







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  Reply # 712406 5-Nov-2012 16:42 Send private message

off the subject a bit, but personally I am ashamed to be a NZer at times..and the illegal raid of his house by the Americans and Kiwis was disgusting. As someone said a knock on his door would have been sufficient.

If all he is doing is stirring up the NZ community for the greater good of NZ people..than all good. If he can attract investors to actually make Pacific Fibre work..better still.

Need a few more people like him here.

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  Reply # 712409 5-Nov-2012 16:51 Send private message

DonGould:
NonprayingMantis:If that is the case, why would anybody want to host their data centre in NZ?  We have shown with our actions over the dotcom fiasco that we are quite willing to break the law if the USA asks us. 


Yes and how we've responded so far is that Mr Dotcom is still here.

We've seen the PM go on public television and apologize to Mr Dotcom.

We've seen judges step down from his case.

We've seen the opposition just attack Mr Key over the GCSB.

The FBI's time here is done.  Mr Dotcom will be staying and I suggest to you that Mr Key is mega-pissed at GCSB for having to go on public television and just apologize.

But all of that is not really the point.

Smart business around the world will be taking the message that you have to put your content every where and make sure that any change in public policy can't just compromise your business. 

That's clearly what Mr Dotcom is doing. 





and yet.... all his assets are still frozen and his business is in ruins, his case is unresolved after almost a year and he is still very much under threat of deportation.

If somebody is wary of the US government this is the last place (outside the USA) they would want to setup shop.

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  Reply # 712660 6-Nov-2012 07:46 Send private message

I may not agree with everything, everytime, but Lance Wiggs explains why this is a joke.




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