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Satch

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#18907 29-Jan-2008 10:51
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This thread has been started as a spin off of the "DTT Tests active on Waiatarua Auckland" thread.

RustyGonad:

I'm also very interested in RustyGonad's claim that the MCE 2005 hacks will also work with Vista...


It works - I'll start another thread  bit later with the HOW TO, but I can confirm I have the following going under Vista MCE:

On a single Hauppauge HVR3000 - at the same time (someone on here said this won't work!):

Analog FTA TV    via the Analog Tuner
DVB-S Freeview   via the DVBS to DVBT using the digital tuner
FM Radio            via the Analog Tuner
S-Video input      via the Analog Tuner

You can record Analog while watching Digital, and vice versa, which confirms that the HVR-3000 Analog and Digital tuners are separate. This is all running off a single common Program Guide (complete including Prime, Juice, Cue etc)

Despite my earlier comment this is actually very easy to setup - once I got my head around the process and the very poor documentation/info - thats the hard bit.  From scratch I could set this up in around 30 minutes including the guide, alot of which is tuner search time.

I've set it up so that Prime and Juice come from the Analog side, along with the rest of the Freeview Digitial stuff - seems to be working well so far.

I'll test it with Dual Cards sometime later in the week ie 2 x HVR3000's, just need to move some stuff around to free up a slot in my production machine.  Will also test out the same combo with my old PVR150, however I know there won't be too many issues with that.

Analog tuner quality in the HVR3000 is average - the PVR150 definitely puts out a better tweaked picture - haven't played with the HVR much yet to see if it can be improved, however it looks like its a signal quality thing rather than motion comp or anything like that.  My guess is the HVR introduces RF interference into the Analog tuner, using the same aerial on the PVR150 produces a much better result.

So that leaves h.264 DVB-T as the only real thing Vista MCE won't do... Fiji update anyone???


Top work mate.  Thanks for testing this set up.  Keen to see your HOW TO as the one on the Australian Media Center Community forum is not that well written.

Are you having difficulties with changing to an analogue channel while recording digital?  This was a known problem with this hack under XP MCE 2005, but some reports say that this issue does not occur under Vista.

Looking forward to some more info.


Satch.

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gehenna
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  #107373 29-Jan-2008 12:31
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Heya, very keen to read your info!  Waiting patiently ...

 
 
 

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geekiegeek
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#107390 29-Jan-2008 13:54
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Just tracked down the thread on MCE-AU site and it looks like a pretty cool setup.

I have a HVR3000 and a ATI 550 Pro card (analogue) that I am keen to get working together - ATI for Sky via STB (S-Video) and Freeview via DVB-S on the HVR3000.

Currently using mediaportal which does this but its just so buggy and I seem to spend time almost daily nursing it along - WAF and HAF are dropping by the day!

Was going to rebuild as Vista MCE and do away with Freeview due to the "only one guide\one tuner" issues but looks like this setup could be my saviuor.

RustyGonad - would be great to see a HOWTO with a NZ focus.

RustyGonad
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  #107405 29-Jan-2008 14:58
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Top work mate.  Thanks for testing this set up.  Keen to see your HOW TO as the one on the Australian Media Center Community forum is not that well written.

Are you having difficulties with changing to an analogue channel while recording digital?  This was a known problem with this hack under XP MCE 2005, but some reports say that this issue does not occur under Vista.

Looking forward to some more info.


Satch.


I'll get the stuff posted up as soon as I can - just need a few spare hours to sit down and type it up so that everyone can understand it - thats where all/most of the issues around this stuff are coming from, this might take me a day or two, but I'd rather do this so everyone can follow it, rather than create more confusion.

No problems changing channels or recording - have tried both without issue.  It needs to make it through today's automatic guide update before I will call it stable, but so far so good.  I'm using a combined guide, which I believe helps.

Had the same problems as everyone else with Media Portal - my main gripe was the user interface (and the double entries in the guide), it just wasn't finished enough for me to call production ready - anything I do has to be hands off (my Media Center sits hidden in a cabinet under the TV), and it must be stable and useable enough for my kids to use it (5 & 2) which they can.

I haven't found anything else that even comes close to passing this test, and to be honest once you set it up well it simply looks miles better than anything else out there. especially the guide.  Thats what you get for having a team of hundreds of interface designers.

I think once you take the time to have a look under the bonnet it becomes easily the best solution out there.

Also for those that don't know theres an update coming out in beta form in the next few months (depending on who you listen to) which will embed most of this stuff it the core MCE kernal.  This should save all the tinkering if you want to wait until then. 

This should have:
Native DVB-S Support incl OTA guide
Broadcast h.264 Support
Dual Analog & Digital Support

Most of this stuff has been discussed on the GreenButton forums.





Satch

1985 posts

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  #107407 29-Jan-2008 15:09
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Rusty, you are a legend.  Your requirements are EXACTLY the same as mine.

Need something clean and workable.  Nothing else out there comes close.

I'm in the final stages of settling on the components for my HTPC.  Will probably start to order stuff this week.  Looking forward to those instructions, but won't need them for a few days.

Thanks again for working on this.  Very much appreciated!

gehenna
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  #107408 29-Jan-2008 15:12
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I'm with Satch.  My motherboard died before xmas so i've been putting off replacing it but now that this has come to light it may be time to find some extra cash somewhere :)

PromNZ
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#107591 30-Jan-2008 17:39
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I'll add my thanks too, as it's just what I'm after. My Vista MCE has been very very good but it's time to shift to Freeview.

Keen to follow this.

trig42
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  #108259 3-Feb-2008 08:40
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I am keen to follow this also - would love to get freeview via satellite in VistaMCE without hacking the registry to pieces. Am currently also running MediaPortal - which is fine (Channel changing a bit slow, but other than that - pretty good) - but it still isn't the easiest interface (for WAF).



RustyGonad
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  #108461 4-Feb-2008 12:42
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Here's the rough and ready version for anyone who is itching to try it.  Will post up a word doc with screenshots, but thats going to take a few more days.


Firstly this guide assumes your are familiar with setting up both the guide and tuner cards under Vista Media Center.  If not I suggest you get familiar with this process first.  It also assumes a working knowledge of the registry editor, if you are not confident/familiar with using the registry editor please don't try to attempt this until you are.  This is the only thing in this guide that will stop your machine from working.


This guide is also based around Hauppauge Cards - it will probably work with other cards, but I haven't tried it.

you can setup the following:
HVR-3000, using the DVB-S and Analog tuners at the same time (Freeview Digital + Prime, Juice and others)
HVR-3000, with PVR-150 to view Freeview Digital + Prime, Juice and others
HVR-3000. with PVR-150 to view Freeview Digital + Sky Channels, using the MS IR Blaster to change channels


The process assumes you have at least the following:
Vista - including Media Center ie Home Premium or above
Microsoft MCE Remote Control and IR Blaster(s)
Hauppauge Tuner Card(s)
BladerunnerPro 3.0 + Guide NZ Source
MCETunerAppv2.09


I have used these instructions to setup Hauppauge HVR-3000 and a Hauppauge PVR-150, both of which are readily available in New Zealand.  On my machine this setup is rock solid, I can record from either card ie dual channel recording.


In summary the process to setup dual/mulitple tuner cards is as follows:

1.  Setup Vista Media Center - enable all cards (so they can be seen by Vista)
2.  Setup a common New Zealand Guide ie one that includes both Freeview and Sky, and other non-Freeview channels ie Prime, Juice etc

3.  Setup Freeview Digital, including the mapping the guide to the correct channel
4.  Copy the Guide setup, and a few other registry settings to a "safe" directory

5.  Setup Analog FTA or S-Video, using the IR Blaster if necessary
6.  Restore Freeview Guide Settings
7.  Add in "missing" channels ie restore either the Analog FTA or Sky Channels using the blaster

8.  Test and complete


This process can be done in around 30 minutes once you understand it.  You can't really break anything doing it, so if you mess it up, just start again.


1.  Vista MCE Setup
Software Required:
Hauppauge Drivers CD 4.1 - you can probably use others, but I know this works
Freeview NZ Registry file - I can post this up if anyone needs it
MCETunerAppv2.0 - downloadable from the web


Setup Vista as you normally would, including all drivers etc.  Once this is complete, feel free to test that Vista MCE can see the HVR-3000, by performing a basic channel scan.


MCETunerAppv2.0 - this app will enable the second tuner card (PVR-150) so that Vista MCE can "see" it.  By default Vista will only enable 1 tuner card, which in my experience has always been the digital card or HVR-3000.  Run this app

Click on the "Get Tuner's" button.

Under Analog Tuners you should see an entry "Hauppauge Win TV 88X" in RED.
 
Click on it and give it a name in the "Set Unique name for the tuner" box.  I called mine PVR-150 Analog.  Click on the save button and then make sure that the "enable for MCE" box is clicked on the Analog Entry which has (tuner) in brackets.

Once this is done you can check it by going into Media Center and trying a channel scan using the Analog Tuner, either by doing a channel scan or using the S-Video input connected to you Sky Decoder.


You are now 25% of the way there


2.  Guide Setup - I'm not about to cover how to setup a New Zealand Guide in here, however this process is relatively simple, and it well documented in a number of places.  I am curently using a guide source which includes both the Freeview channels, FTA Analog and Sky channels.  There are programs which will capture this information directly from the DVB-S source, and export this to a XML source, for use within Bladerunner.  If you don't have a guide this process will still work, you just won't get the Guide...


3.  Freeview - setup Freeview as you normally would ie:
  - Scan Channels, you should see 18 services appear
  - Map the guide to the channels
  - Re-order the channels, if you are aiming to add Prime and Juice, I suggest leaving a "Reserved" channel in spaces 5 (for Prime) and 7 (for Juice), this will minimise any issues later when trying to "merge" the channels
  - test ie make sure recording is working etc.
  - CLOSE MEDIA CENTER


4.  Copy Files:
  - Create a directory on your desktop call it "Multi Tuner" or something like that
  - Open Registry Editor
  - open the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion|Media Centre\Services\Video\Tuners\
  - You will should see three entries:
    {xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx}
    {xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx}
    DVR
  - Export the first two entries to the folder you created on your desktop, name them something like HVR300#1 and HVR3000#2

  - Now open the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion|Media Centre\Settings\
  - Export the key TVConfig to the directory on your desktop, call it TVConig

  - Open the registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion|Media Centre\Service\EPG
  - look for the key CurrentEPG
  - Open the key and copy the contents to a textfile using notepad (copy the contents of the key, paste them into notepad).  Save this file into the directory on your desktop and call it "Current EPG.txt"
  - This will be something similar to "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG\cd3b2ffe4d704119a3549525bae9301d.sdf", however it will be unique on every machine

  - Now open to the following folder: "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG"
 
There will be 2 files (one .xml, one .sdf) with the same base name as the key you just copied into the text file
Copy and paste these 2 files into the "Multi Tuner" directory on your desktop - DONT CHANGE THE FILENAME IN ANY WAY, JUST COPY AND PASTE THEM


You are now 50% of the way there


5.  Analog Setup
  - Open MEDIA CENTER
  - Now setup the Analog channels you wish to use.
  - map the Guide to these channels (this step is a bit of a waste of time but it helps you to understand the process).
  - I suggest making sure that none of the channels clash with the Freeview Channels
  - Test - make sure everthing is working including recording


6.  Restore Freeview Digital
  - Open Regedit
  - Open the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion|Media Centre\Service\EPG\CurrentEPG
  - Modify the key contents with the contents of the text file called CurrentEPG.txt (copy and paste the contents)
  - CLOSE Regedit (if you don't the changes wont stick)

  - Open the folder "C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\eHome\EPG"
  - Copy the 2 files in your desktop "Multi Tuner" folder called xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.sdf & xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xml and paste them into the directory above

  - Select your "Multi Tuner" folder again
  - Double click on each of the 3 registry keys (HVR3000#1, HVR3000#2, and TVConfig) to add them back into the registry.  Each of these will require

confirmation

  - Open Regedit again
  - Find the following key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Service\Video\Tuners\
  {xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx}
  {xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx}
  DVR
  - Expand the first entry (this is the Digital Card), until you see the UserSettings key
  Change the following entries:
  RecordOrder = 0
  RecordPrefered = 0
  WatchOrder = 0
  WatchPrefered = 0
 
  - Expand the second entry (this is the Analog Card), until you see the UserSettings key
  Change the following entries:
  RecordOrder = 1
  RecordPrefered = ffffffff
  WatchOrder = 1
  WatchPrefered = ffffffff

  -  Make sure under "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Settings\ProgramGuide", that the key fEpgDataAvailable=1
 
  - Check the following keys:  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion|Media Centre\Settings\TVConfig
  fHasDVB=1
  fHasSTB=0 (If you are using Analog FTA) or 1 (if you are using Sky via S-Video)
  fiBroadcastStandard=4
  fVideoSource=1
  - CLOSE Regedit


Your are now 75% of the way there


7.  Open Media Center
  -  Check the Guide and that live TV is working again - you should only see the Freeview Digital channels at this stage.
  - Assuming this is all working proceed on.  If not head back to step 5 and try again.

  - Open Tasks --> Settings on the main MCE menu
  - Goto TV--> Guide --> Get Latest Guide Listings (this isn't absolutely necessary, but it seems to save having to redo the guide again, as sometimes it doesn't stick)
  - Open Tasks ---> Settings --> TV again

For Analog FTA goto Scan for More Services
   - Scan for more services (this will take around 5 minutes)
   - Once its finished, edit the channels and remove the ones you dont want
   - Add the guide to the Analog channels, reorder in the order you prefer.
   - Test and with all going well YOUR DONE!

For Sky via S-Video goto Guide --> Add Missing Channels
   - add the channels you want ie numbered according to the Sky Decoder channel numbers
   - add the Guide to the missing channels, reorder etc
   - Test and with all going well YOUR DONE!


mule
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  #108482 4-Feb-2008 14:00
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Thanks, this looks great, I will try it tonight.

By the way just want to confirm, I only have HVR 3000 and using this method I will be able to use the card to receive both digital (freeview) and Analogue (FTA) at the same time.  Will it also enable the FM radio on the card so it works under media center??

Cheers


Mat

Satch

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  #108485 4-Feb-2008 14:04
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Top stuff Rusty.

Have you/can you test to see if you can change channels on the analogue tuner while recording something using the digital tuner?  This is one of the limitations I read about elsewhere.

phatbloke
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  #108486 4-Feb-2008 14:07
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Hi
This thread is obviously about MCE but has anyone tried mediaportal and the HVR-3000? I have just brought it so I can use it for analogue until DVB-T cranks up but from discussions I hear it can be hard to get going.
Also has anyone tried the HVR3000 on any of the DVB-T tests?

Cheers

RustyGonad
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  #108490 4-Feb-2008 14:14
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mule: Thanks, this looks great, I will try it tonight.

By the way just want to confirm, I only have HVR 3000 and using this method I will be able to use the card to receive both digital (freeview) and Analogue (FTA) at the same time.  Will it also enable the FM radio on the card so it works under media center??

Cheers


Mat


Yep - I have had it running with on both a single HVR-3000, and on the HVR-3000 + the PVR-150.

If you want to use a single HVR-3000 install the SoftMCE Decoder which is on the Hauupauge 4.1 drivers disk first.  Make sure you use the latest 4.1 drivers - I had issues with the earlier ones clashing with the MC reciever service, which was a known issue.

I am currently using it to add Prime and Juice to the main Freeview lineup.  And yes FM Radio works on both options.

I had a few issues with the signal quality on the Analog side of the HVR-3000, it seemed to introduce noise in the signal - this may as sbiddle suggested been due to the Sofware MPEG encoding, however it looked to me more like RF interference than an MPEG encoding issue.  My guess is still that its line noise introduced on the Analog card.  I need to test it more using the S-Video input, which would isolate it down ie you shouldn't get intererence on this path - so if the noise still exists its a software MPEG issue, if not its an RF intererence issue.

I certainly don't get this problem on the PVR-150, the signal is very clean.  I had a PVR-150 sitting in a box so I set it up and haven't played around with the single card option since.

On both options you can record analog and digital together.

RustyGonad
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  #108493 4-Feb-2008 14:19
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Satch: Top stuff Rusty.

Have you/can you test to see if you can change channels on the analogue tuner while recording something using the digital tuner?  This is one of the limitations I read about elsewhere.


Yep works well - have recorded both at once and changed one while recording the other.

Have had the current build going for about a week - its rock solid so far have had any issues at all.

RustyGonad
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  #108495 4-Feb-2008 14:23
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phatbloke: Hi
This thread is obviously about MCE but has anyone tried mediaportal and the HVR-3000? I have just brought it so I can use it for analogue until DVB-T cranks up but from discussions I hear it can be hard to get going.
Also has anyone tried the HVR3000 on any of the DVB-T tests?

Cheers


Yep & Yep.

It works on MediaPortal - you just need to install the SoftMCE encoder to see the analog tuner before it will work.  Digital channel change time sucks the big one though - takes ages compared to MCE (which is all but instant), but hey Im biased.

It also works well with the DVB-T trials, I've used it with both GB-PVR and DVBViewer.

Hopefully the Fiji beta will be out soon so that it works in MCE.

trig42
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  #108496 4-Feb-2008 14:24
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Top guide.

may be worth giving VistaMCE a go.


With Sky via S-Video and Freeview Via Sat, Can you tell it that, for example, If I am recording TV3 off Freeview, that I can watch TV2 via the Sky STB?

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