SkyTV, TV One and TV3 Ban Slingshot Adverts

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#1102852 5-Aug-2014 20:22

Done.

richms

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#1102860 5-Aug-2014 20:28

So now its the chance of choice tv or one of the other small channels to get some press by accepting the ad's

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LennonNZ

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#1102862 5-Aug-2014 20:30

So if someone had a huge protest about Sky and TV One/TV3 blocking the advertising of Global Mode, would the TV Stations Report about it?

PhantomNVD

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#1102892 5-Aug-2014 20:56

and maybe NEtflix have started reacting already? http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=81&topicid=150856

MrJonathanNZ

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#1102901 5-Aug-2014 21:09

It seems silly for netflix to remove subscribers (although of dubious legality) but if they do somehow shut NZ SKY, TV1 and TV3 aren't going to see a raise in viewers, if anything we will see a rise in piracy, dvd rentals or something of that nature.

geekiegeek

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#1102915 5-Aug-2014 21:23

strange that there was no mention of any of this on One news tonight.

BigRat

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#1102918 5-Aug-2014 21:26

geekiegeek: strange that there was no mention of any of this on One news tonight.

Give them time and see how hard they'll make a headline that criticises Slingshot.

Or I think they have seen a fair amount of negative feedback from the people and decided to keep it discrete.

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JimmyH

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#1102931 5-Aug-2014 21:43

robjg63: The argument that TVNZ, TV3 and Sky will make is that they have to pay a lot of money to have screening rights for material in this part of the world because that is what the owners make them pay.
If a place like Netflix can negotiate much better deals (because of size) then how can the local businesses compete?

Which is essentially a repackaging of the same whiney self-interested argument that the "authorised" distributors of books, cameras and magazines made against parallel importing - "but, but, but, we have invested so much money into our infrastructure and we will be out of pocket if people can bypass us and import from Amazon at a better price". Why do media and "creative" companies think they inhabit a different universe where the normal laws of commerce don't apply to them?

raytaylor

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#1102943 5-Aug-2014 21:58

Am seriously thinking about cancelling the sky now. I get enough docos out of the bbc iplayer etc now and i only have sky for the hitler channel anyway.

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#1102954 5-Aug-2014 22:25

C.Foss@parliament.govt.nz

On behalf of Hon Craig Foss, thank you for your e-mail.

While the Minister considers all correspondence to be important and all messages are carefully read and considered, it is not possible to provide a personal response to every e-mail which is received.

Where the Minister has portfolio or MP for Tukituki responsibility for the issues that you have raised, your correspondence will be considered and responded to where appropriate.

If you are inviting the Minister to attend an event you are organising, our office will be in touch shortly.

Kind regards

matisyahu

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#1102968 5-Aug-2014 22:46

Well, once the 12 months is up I'm unsubbing from SkyTV - honestly, there is a reason why MediaWorks have gone titsup and I'm unsubbing from Sky but it seems the big wigs in said corporations just don't get it.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

NonprayingMantis

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#1102973 5-Aug-2014 22:56

JimmyH:
robjg63: The argument that TVNZ, TV3 and Sky will make is that they have to pay a lot of money to have screening rights for material in this part of the world because that is what the owners make them pay.
If a place like Netflix can negotiate much better deals (because of size) then how can the local businesses compete?

Which is essentially a repackaging of the same whiney self-interested argument that the "authorised" distributors of books, cameras and magazines made against parallel importing - "but, but, but, we have invested so much money into our infrastructure and we will be out of pocket if people can bypass us and import from Amazon at a better price". Why do media and "creative" companies think they inhabit a different universe where the normal laws of commerce don't apply to them?

technically it's Netflix who the laws of commerce (NZ ones at least) don't seem to apply to in this situation

1) Unlike Sky, they sell to NZers in NZ but don't have to charge and pay GST (or any other form of tax in NZ)*
2) Unlike Sky, they are breaching their agreements with content suppliers to only supply in regions where they have paid for the rights
3) Unlike Sky, they don't have to abide by the Fair Trading Act
4) Unlike Sky, They don't have to abide by the Consumer Goods Act
5) unlike Sky, They don't have to abide by the NZ censorship rules - so they don't have to submit any of their content to the censor, pay for it to be vetted, wait for them to pass judgement, before finally selling it.
6) unlike Sky, they don't have to provide any level of support whatsoever for their product - if you call them up and report a fault, one of the first things thing are going to ask is "who is your ISP" and after that good luck getting any help out of them

Bear in mind here I'm not trying to defend Sky as a business - I think their service is crummy and I use Netflix a lot. But I'm not so blind as to see they have a genuine advantage here purely because they are using loopholes to sell to NZers in NZ without abiding by NZ law.

Sure, the business models are changing and all that - but would you be happy if Sky were given the all of the above points 1-6 to 'level the playing field'? I think most kiwis like the fact the CGA, FTA etc protects them.

(and bear in mind for the comparison with parallel importing - the CGA and FTA does cover parallel imported products - the importer is responsible - but good luck getting the CGA to cover Netflix access. (who is the importer? Slingshot?)

*you maynot think that makes much difference when comparing Skyprices to Netflix, and you'd be right. But consider Lightbox where a full $2 of it's price goes straight to the government - comparing a $15 price with a $13 price makes a big difference. A difference Netflix doesn't have to worry about.

Eitsop

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#1102981 5-Aug-2014 23:22

Can Telecom & Lightbox.. please buy exclusive rights to rugby... I would be happy to pay per view/season..
Lightbox could on sell to Ski & TVNZ if need be...

loceff13

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#1102992 5-Aug-2014 23:42

attewell: Can Telecom & Lightbox.. please buy exclusive rights to rugby... I would be happy to pay per view/season..
Lightbox could on sell to Ski & TVNZ if need be...

Guess who owns all the transmitting equipment for that level of coverage

JimmyH

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#1102996 5-Aug-2014 23:53

NonprayingMantis:

1) Unlike Sky, they sell to NZers in NZ but don't have to charge and pay GST (or any other form of tax in NZ)*

Correct. But, other than GST, the tax argument is a red herring. Netflix is liable to pay company tax on any profits in the US. If you are arguing that you shouldn't buy from companies that don't pay company tax in NZ then you are pretty much arguing against anyone importing anything at all. Just like NZ exporters pay company tax in NZ, US exporters pay company tax in the US, UK companies in the UK, etc.

The GST argument does have some validity. And if the government can find a way to cost-effectively collect GST on small imports (not just Netflix subs) then it should do so. However, in the Netflix vs Sky comparison, it's virtually irrelevant. It's $13 c.f., circa $100+ so loading 15% on wouldn't materially influence the decision. I'm far more likely to make a decision based on content range, release window, quality and ease of use than I am on a $2 closing of the enormous price differential.

2) Unlike Sky, they are breaching their agreements with content suppliers to only supply in regions where they have paid for the rights

Probably not. They have made a reasonable attempt to comply by geoblocking. Plus, in my book, those agreements are close to a restrictive trade practice anyway.

3) Unlike Sky, they don't have to abide by the Fair Trading Act

Ummm, yes, but so what? Companies are bound by the laws of the countries in which they reside. This is true for anything - books, music, clothing, powertools. It's a known risk that a NZer chooses to take when they opt for purchasing from offshore rather than onshore. If anything, NZ retailers should be treating this as an advantage and marketing it - buy from us and you get legal rights - parallel import and you don't. Caveat emptor.

4) Unlike Sky, They don't have to abide by the Consumer Goods Act

Again, true but so what? Same issue as the Fair Trading Act. It's something that you should bear in mind when making a purchase decision for *anything* from offshore. But, for solid companies like Amazon with decent customer support reputations, it's actually rarely an issue in practice.

Note: as an aside - it's actually the Consumer Guarantees Act (not Goods).

5) unlike Sky, They don't have to abide by the NZ censorship rules - so they don't have to submit any of their content to the censor, pay for it to be vetted, wait for them to pass judgement, before finally selling it.

Another red herring. In practical terms, mostly neither does Sky. My understanding is that we recognise many censorship classifications from comparable other countries (the UK and Australia) for films etc - and if it gets the equivalent of a G, PG, M, or R16 etc in those countries, it automatically gets the equivalent rating here - sight unseen - unless the rating is challenged. Plus, for most content, its the makers who arrange the classification, not the broadcaster. It's only R18 equivalents where a separate NZ classification is pretty much always required.

6) unlike Sky, they don't have to provide any level of support whatsoever for their product - if you call them up and report a fault, one of the first things thing are going to ask is "who is your ISP" and after that good luck getting any help out of them

Yep - and you should take account of that when comparing options. But, if worst comes to worst, you can always cancel and possbily be out of pocket for a whole $13. Gasp.

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