Updated request for Captions...

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red89mx

81 posts

Master Geek

#208763 26-Feb-2017 23:47

Hi Lightbox team.....did not see any Lightbox response to an older thread requesting captions. http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=171&topicid=195938

I have a Lightbox offering that is barely used due to lack of captioning. I can get these on Netflix but not Lightbox?

Are there any plans in the pipeline, is it a funding/cost issue or technical issue?

Understand it is not just Lightbox dropping ball with lack of captioning for streaming services, and the reality is that we probably need it to be legislated like most other western countries have already done as "corporate responsibility" don't seem to cut it (unsure if it ever did).

See http://www.captionitnz.co.nz/about/ which is a NZ pressure group set up to lobby for captioning.

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7 posts

Wannabe Geek

Lightbox

#1736687 15-Mar-2017 10:26

Hi there,

Sorry for the slow response.

Providing close captioning is not currently on our roadmap due to a number of factors. Most of the content we source is not provided to us with close captioning included, the ones we do get are in incompatible formats and specifications, and creating or commissioning new caption files is a labour intensive initiative.

Lightbox is not currently eligible for funding from NZ On Air, like other major New Zealand television broadcasters. That being said, we continue to look for alternative options to help our customers, and hope to be able to provide this feature in the future.

Cheers

Ella@Lightbox

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18659 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#1736718 15-Mar-2017 11:22

People who are deaf and people who are merely old and often have increasing difficulty making out words even though they can still hear sounds, rely on services like this and profit-making enterprises pleading cost as a reason not to provide them is mean-spirited and an abrogation of their responsibility to the communities they make money from. It is the same kind of crap that is used as an excuse not to provide wheelchair access to buildings and it is just as selfish and self-serving. Other places do it. So can this one.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1736721 15-Mar-2017 11:25

yep - till it is pass as require by law, then you will get the reply above, only reason free to air even has them, is they do have targets they need to meet, something low tho like 60% prime time need it. Till either the gov pays for it so it is free or profit for a provider to do so or it is required for broadcast, it will not happen. The reason for netflix having it, it is required by USA law to have it.

UHD

655 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1736767 15-Mar-2017 11:49

EllafromLightbox:

Hi there,

Sorry for the slow response.

Providing close captioning is not currently on our roadmap due to a number of factors. Most of the content we source is not provided to us with close captioning included, the ones we do get are in incompatible formats and specifications, and creating or commissioning new caption files is a labour intensive initiative.

Lightbox is not currently eligible for funding from NZ On Air, like other major New Zealand television broadcasters. That being said, we continue to look for alternative options to help our customers, and hope to be able to provide this feature in the future.

Cheers

Ella@Lightbox

Do you mean to say that captions are unavailable from your supplier or that they are but for additional cost?

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1736778 15-Mar-2017 12:04

UHD:

Do you mean to say that captions are unavailable from your supplier or that they are but for additional cost?

base on when i was working at a tv company, it maybe - yes it an extra cost to buy them, but also there are different format for them too plus different refresh rates, so even if you buy them, it might not work for your installed CC system. remember they get stuff all over the world with different standard and different refresh rates (and that affect the timing), and it all about timing for getting the CC up at the right time.

tripp

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#1736806 15-Mar-2017 12:18

My 2 cents worth.

CC etc should come from source (production companies). Not up to each provider to do due to the cost and format/sync issues (it really is a big cost, including staff, double checks to make sure it correct, frame rate syncs etc). If lightbox etc created a show then I would expect them to do them. If the show is from another source then it should be supplied.

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1736857 15-Mar-2017 13:39

tripp:

My 2 cents worth.

CC etc should come from source (production companies). Not up to each provider to do due to the cost and format/sync issues (it really is a big cost, including staff, double checks to make sure it correct, frame rate syncs etc). If lightbox etc created a show then I would expect them to do them. If the show is from another source then it should be supplied.

biggest issue with this is if you need to transcode from the supplied format to a format that work on your system - happen all the time, then the timing is off, and also if you have ads (i know not everyone but) you then also need to break up the CC into section etc, the biggest problem is no one standard system for this, but I still feel it should be a cost of broadcasting for everyone - that one nice thing about USA sue system if you step my rights, company need to provide this or get sued. If it up to the company with no mandate to do so, then it will be dropped as it a big headache to do.

So my 2c is there will be no CC in lightbox till there is a mandate to do it, then there will be.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#1738855 15-Mar-2017 13:59

Mojo Mathers has someone in parliament typing the debates in real time so she can follow them, so how hard can it be? Haul a secretary shorthand/typist out of retirement and give her a job. If broadcasters can plaster their logos all over the place they can overlay a caption box. Cost may be part of this, but I think it is mostly lack of will, as in stuff the deaf and hard of hearing, we can't be bothered until someone makes us.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1738858 15-Mar-2017 14:05

Rikkitic:

Mojo Mathers has someone in parliament typing the debates in real time so she can follow them, so how hard can it be? Haul a secretary shorthand/typist out of retirement and give her a job. If broadcasters can plaster their logos all over the place they can overlay a caption box. Cost may be part of this, but I think it is mostly lack of will, as in stuff the deaf and hard of hearing, we can't be bothered until someone makes us.

how hard is it? not that hard, but it cost money and the bottom line is it a cost is greater then the extra money they would get with deaf and hard of hearing buying the service therefore not provided. Do not agree that they should get away with that, but with out laws pass they will.

red89mx

81 posts

Master Geek

#1740550 16-Mar-2017 23:33

Thanks for the reply Ella, just trying to keep it front of mind.

I am investigating Sparks netflix offer primarily for the captions.

Double blow with Tivo service shutting down EPG, as this is how we have been capturing captioned broadcast material to date (on 2 x Tivos). Now need to investigate wife friendly alternatives :(

Ultimately captioning is a commercial decision and without either a forced mandate or funding it is only going to be delivered from organisations who have already invested into it within their home market (eg netflix).

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1740616 17-Mar-2017 08:28

red89mx:

Thanks for the reply Ella, just trying to keep it front of mind.

I am investigating Sparks netflix offer primarily for the captions.

Double blow with Tivo service shutting down EPG, as this is how we have been capturing captioned broadcast material to date (on 2 x Tivos). Now need to investigate wife friendly alternatives :(

Ultimately captioning is a commercial decision and without either a forced mandate or funding it is only going to be delivered from organisations who have already invested into it within their home market (eg netflix).

having a hard of hearing wife too i know how you feel, option are legal nz (or what the broadcaster say are the legal option in nz) - netflix, and in the grey area, hulu has them, BBC iplayer on pc has them but not on apple tv, and illegal option, standard bit torrent do not have them, but there is a massive crowdsource CC group that create CC for just about every thing you can find on the bit torrents and player like VLC will play them with the movie / tv show for you.

UHD

655 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1740637 17-Mar-2017 10:04

bagheera:

having a hard of hearing wife too i know how you feel, option are legal nz (or what the broadcaster say are the legal option in nz) - netflix, and in the grey area, hulu has them, BBC iplayer on pc has them but not on apple tv, and illegal option, standard bit torrent do not have them, but there is a massive crowdsource CC group that create CC for just about every thing you can find on the bit torrents and player like VLC will play them with the movie / tv show for you.

I guess it depends where you source your bittorrent files from. Unfortunately I'm hard of hearing too and I have found bittorrent to be the only place to reliably find captions. The people that do it tend to use freely available tools to add, re-time, and correct the captions so I'm afraid I am forced to call bullshît when a commercial provider says they receive them out of time or in an incorrect format. That is quite a simple fix and can be automated.

bagheera

539 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1740644 17-Mar-2017 10:31

UHD:

I guess it depends where you source your bittorrent files from. Unfortunately I'm hard of hearing too and I have found bittorrent to be the only place to reliably find captions. The people that do it tend to use freely available tools to add, re-time, and correct the captions so I'm afraid I am forced to call bullshît when a commercial provider says they receive them out of time or in an incorrect format. That is quite a simple fix and can be automated.

These people do not charge for their time so people can enjoy - lots of these people have people like you as love ones and want them to enjoy it so donate their time to do it, but to get that done on the like of lightbox, then you need to at the least pay 1 person, most like 2 so they can go on holiday and be sick, to do this, that is 1 or 2 wages cost that they do not need to pay, then you got the support cost for fixing any miss timing etc that come in, on top of that the system has to be HDCP certified which means the free software is out - costs do add up, and commercial provider have done the sums and gone this is a lost making for us, we do not need to do it, so do not do it. If the cost come down so the people like you and me and the OP buying the services is greater then the cost, then you will get lightbox doing it - insert a tui ad here, or law is changed and they have to, then again they would do it.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#1740648 17-Mar-2017 10:41

And they wonder why people turn to illegal sources.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

richms

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#1740652 17-Mar-2017 10:51

I wonder how much of the problems the broadcasters have is because of the framerate fudging and the captions being made for the correct 24/30 fps video and no longer working when mangled to 25?

Richard rich.ms

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