French Open Tennis was in HD on Saturday

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DarkKnight08

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#34926 1-Jun-2009 01:36

Hi guys,

The French Open Tennis was in HD on Saturday. I saw it in HD when Nadal was playing Hewitt and recorded it and uploaded a video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8Mx73blLn8 (click HD down the bottom).

Now the Tennis plays in SD all the time. I contacted the CEO and he said:

-----------------------------------
I looked into the issue you raise. To buy the French Open it cost $X dollars.
To bring it in HD it cost 3 times $X. This means to buy the event in HD would have cost $4X.
At that price we just can not justify the cost with the limited viewing the French Open gets.
However at $X it still makes since so we went ahead and bought it in Standard Definition.
As we continue to grow the HD base we will continue to expand the HD content.

John Fellet
CEO Sky Network Television
-----------------------------------

Doesn't this make you angry? Firstly dont we pay the EXTRA for the HD content? Or is that $10 for them to buy toilet paper at Sky? Secondly How can you buy the SD coverage and suddenly on one day play beautiful crystal clear HD. I know some of you will say "But I dont watch Tennis". Thats not the point. In a few months they might not even show some sport you do watch in HD or something.

I think it is time to start writing to Fair Go, anyone keen?

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#220284 1-Jun-2009 09:29

OK...I thought I was going blind or something was wrong with my TV.

I just got my first HD TV and had my sky upgraded to HD content so I could watch the French Open in HD.

So here I am staring at my brand new Samasung 40" LCD watching the French Open on a Skysport 1 or 2, which are listed as HD channels, and I'm watching it thinking...man...that looks like crap.

So they are broadcasting SD content on HD channels? Is it just me, or does that not seem like fraud?

I spend an extra $10 a month to get SkySport in HD and they feed me SD content?

Have I recently mentioned how much Sky actually sucks here in New Zealand? Why are getting bugger all HD content? No Discovery or Animal Planet HD?

sbiddle

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#220301 1-Jun-2009 10:18

spacedog: So here I am staring at my brand new Samasung 40" LCD watching the French Open on a Skysport 1 or 2, which are listed as HD channels, and I'm watching it thinking...man...that looks like crap.

So they are broadcasting SD content on HD channels? Is it just me, or does that not seem like fraud?

I spend an extra $10 a month to get SkySport in HD and they feed me SD content?

Most content on Sky Sport is SD. The channels are HD and all SD content is upscaled to 1080i before broadcast.

All true HD content has the HD flag in the EPG.

mhz

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#220571 1-Jun-2009 20:52

sbiddle:
spacedog: So here I am staring at my brand new Samasung 40" LCD watching the French Open on a Skysport 1 or 2, which are listed as HD channels, and I'm watching it thinking...man...that looks like crap.

So they are broadcasting SD content on HD channels? Is it just me, or does that not seem like fraud?

I spend an extra $10 a month to get SkySport in HD and they feed me SD content?

All true HD content has the HD flag in the EPG.

Well in theory, but thats not really true. I have seen the Cricket a few weeks ago England vs West Indies without the (HD) and the "available in hd" box and it was in HD. I also saw the Tennis on Saturday Night but Serena Williams was playing and it was definately in HD. You could see the individual threads in the net and in SD you could never see that. It didnt have the (HD) logo nor the "available in hd box". Also the ITM Fishing Show doesnt have the (HD) in the EPG nor "Available in HD" when it runs but that definately is in HD.

Sky are really deceptive by showing the Tennis in HD on one day, and for the rest in SD. I thought when I saw the HD "Finally the bastards bought the HD" but no. That was a fluke. Probably the guys who they bought the feed from sent the wrong one or something. It's sad but MySky is not worth it anymore. Who wants to watch Nascar, Golf and NFL in HD? Is that what "kiwis" watch?

RustyGonad

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#220603 1-Jun-2009 21:31

Sky are really deceptive by showing the Tennis in HD on one day, and for the rest in SD. I thought when I saw the HD "Finally the bastards bought the HD" but no. That was a fluke. Probably the guys who they bought the feed from sent the wrong one or something. It's sad but MySky is not worth it anymore. Who wants to watch Nascar, Golf and NFL in HD? Is that what "kiwis" watch?

Kiwis tend to watch Rugby and Cricket. Chuck netball in there somewhere too, all of which are available most of the time in HD.

Most kiwi's would rather watch the Super 14 final in HD than the Frog Open. Thats a fact of life. Reality is that in NZ tennis is a minor sport.

There is no deception on the behalf of Sky, if its in HD they do their best to advertise it. Commercial realities of living in NZ dictate that not everything will be, due to the cost of getting the feeds here.

I have never read a anything that said "We guarantee that every piece of content we screen on our HD channels will be in HD", and yet some people expect that to be the case. IMHO this is simply a case of misguided expectations.

If you compare Sky's efforts to say TVNZ, they should be commended. Personally I would have much rather watched Scott Dixon this morning in HD, but it wasn't. Oh dear how sad never mind...

Remember also - its user pays. if you don't like it you don't have to pay.

mhz

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#220674 2-Jun-2009 00:50

RustyGonad:

Sky are really deceptive by showing the Tennis in HD on one day, and for the rest in SD. I thought when I saw the HD "Finally the bastards bought the HD" but no. That was a fluke. Probably the guys who they bought the feed from sent the wrong one or something. It's sad but MySky is not worth it anymore. Who wants to watch Nascar, Golf and NFL in HD? Is that what "kiwis" watch?
.
There is no deception on the behalf of Sky, if its in HD they do their best to advertise it. Commercial realities of living in NZ dictate that not everything will be, due to the cost of getting the feeds here.

I have never read a anything that said "We guarantee that every piece of content we screen on our HD channels will be in HD", and yet some people expect that to be the case. IMHO this is simply a case of misguided expectations.

Actually the CEO has said in many media forums that:

“We are trying to get everything we can in HD. We show more HD sport than any other broadcaster in Australasia. Jeremy (Programme Manager) has standing orders on to get the HD when ever available.” 18 March 2009.

Why you are wrong that Sky are not deceptive:

Under the Fair Trading Act 1986, s 9 defines misleading or deceptive conduct as to: "trade or engaging in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to deceive". The onus of proof is on the person in trade (Sky) to prove that they have not been misleading or deceptive on the balance of probabilities. Any act that advertises a product to be a certain way which contributes to the perception of a reasonable person to believe a product shall be in a certain way amounts to deception as per s 9 if the "trader" fails to deliver on that perception. The bar on such conduct relating to promotion is found in s 13. Sky are deceptive as:

- In the Adverts leading up to My Sky they show a woman playing tennis then "see every detail" RE: my sky hdi. This advert comes under s 9 as sky deceives the public that we will see Tennis in HD. Thats not the truth = deceptive, contrary to ss 9,11. Furthermore it acts as a "promotion" for mysky that Tennis will be shown in HD = contrary to s 13.
- Before the beggining of events on SS1 and SS2 they show a tennis player in HD hitting the ball back. Again "contributing to perception of a reasonable person" that Tennis might be in HD = contrary to ss 9 and 11.
- Sky advertise certain events to be in HD but they do not show it in HD. See this image: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4376/untitleklklkld1.jpg Fake (HD) symbol when event was clearly in SD. = contrary to ss 9, 11 and 13 of the Act. And this image:http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8158/dsc00090m.jpg Where International Cricket (HD) was on SS3 = Sky sport 3 isn't even in HD. This amounts to promotion that a service will be in a certain way and failing to deliver on that "perception" contrary to s 9 and 13 of the Act.
- Sky showing certain sports in HD for a short period of time then back to SD again (like the Tennis on Saturday) = contrary to ss 9 and 11 of the Act "deceptive conduct".
- Sky falsely advertises things to be in HD in their skywatch which turns out to be in SD see image: http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2589/skyguide.jpg No Channel 9 NRL matches have ever been in HD.
= contrary to s 9 as it is deceptive, and s 13 as it acts a "promotion" falsely advertising what is available on mysky.

Thus Sky are deceptive and you are incorrect.

Kiwis tend to watch Rugby and Cricket. Chuck netball in there somewhere too, all of which are available most of the time in HD.

Most kiwi's would rather watch the Super 14 final in HD than the Frog Open. Thats a fact of life. Reality is that in NZ tennis is a minor sport.

So why are we getting 6 hours of Nascar in HD and NFL in HD during August-November? Why are we getting the Senior PGA in HD? Do Kiwi's rather watch that? Or are Sky catering for the CEO who is an American and he is getting what he wants to watch?

RustyGonad

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#220704 2-Jun-2009 08:51

So lets try it this way - if you are so sure you are correct, stop beating around on here, and take them to the commerce commission. Let us all know how you get on. By the sound of your confidence it won't take very long.

Maybe you should see past you narrow focus and realise that much on the content is in HD and that many people have broad views. Did you miss the Rugby, Cricket, Netball, Home Warrior games, All Local Sport Media Shows, Volvo RTW race, most movies etc etc etc.

As another unrelated to HD example Sky put the Maadi Cup (National Secondary Schools Rowing Champs) live on TV this year. They have also placed a large number of other New Zealand minority sports on air. The fact that its not in HD isn't anywhere as near as important as the fact the they are getting air time. There will also be sports that don't make it, but that a simple commercial reality.

Then also remember we live in a country of only 4 million people. In a worldwide context this is doesn't even make us a mid size city. In geographical terms we are about as isolated as you could get, and we don't have a large pool of distribution satellites above us to beam multiple streams of content to us live.

Now do some maths on the subscription base - which is circa 800k people at the moment. If you were running the business, what would you do - would you cater for the largest percentage of your subscription base, and provide for the content they watch, or would you spend millions of dollars backhauling sports which a minority percentage watch? Remember also that it took Sky until circa 2006 to actually make a profit in NZ. What percentage of the My Sky HDi user base watch the tennis?

Do any of our Geographical partners have it much better - does any one broadcaster in Australia actually broadcast more HD than Sky or is that comment they made correct.

I like to look at the actual effect of the tennis not being in HD has on normal peoples lives. How does it effect them, alter their personalities, etc etc etc. Does it cause a significant change it their well being? Will watching it in SD cause blindness? Resolution induced paralysis even? Can we recycle these effects and make the planet a better place? Do we really need to see Serena Williams in HD? So many questions...

But seriously I'm going to head back to reality and enjoy what we've got, rather than whining incessantly about what we haven't... Good luck with the commerce commision.

spacedog

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#220946 2-Jun-2009 15:47

RustyGonad: So lets try it this way - if you are so sure you are correct, stop beating around on here, and take them to the commerce commission. Let us all know how you get on. By the sound of your confidence it won't take very long..............

I don't know the full details of distributing HD content, but I know even these older satellites can push some serious bandwidth.

Just because we are 4million people in New Zealand also strikes me as a particularly argument. Aside from the satellite, there is no additional infrastructure costs to deploy the HD content.

I firmly believe if you do not put pressure on your suppliers/service providers and raise issues, then you deserve nothing but mediocre service. Vocalizing and constructively criticizing is important and relevant.

I posted here because, as far as I can tell, this is one of the most visible and public forums to express an opinion on this matter. I suspect that perhaps even a few folks at Sky might read this and maybe it will affect some change (unlikely, yes...but not impossible).

Also, props to the other poster for citing the trade act...I believe even more that they are engaged in deception/misleading.

And yes, I'm happy to have something...but I felt seriously mislead. You can argue as to whether you feel it's misleading that doesn't change the simple fact that I was lead to believe that if I saw it on Skysport 1 or 2, I'd have it in HD.

Edited as some people missed the sense of humour and it clearly touched a nerve :P

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scottjpalmer

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#220949 2-Jun-2009 15:52

Attack the ball not the player. There is some good discussion and expression of opinions happening here, let's not take it to the gutter.

allstarnz

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#221264 3-Jun-2009 12:22

i am a bit divided on this... on one hand John Fellett has a point..... right now Sky can't justify the cost buying the coverage of HD. I suspect each deal with each broadcaster/distributor is judged on its merits, and decision made from there. Perhaps Sky get a good price for NASCAR, Golf etc, so can justify the expense.

On the other hand, I am kind of annoyed that I know there are events such as the French Open that can be sourced in HD, but Sky are only electing to show them in SD. My current one was NHL finals, but it seems on Mon it was in HD.

MarkX

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#221972 5-Jun-2009 13:01

I have to agree with Rusty on this and no I don't work for Sky. There appear to be some very naive people on this forum. Showing an advert of a tennis player in HD does not imply that all tennis coverage on Sky will be shown in HD. Similarly because a channel is named Sky Sport 1 HD does not suggest that every bit of content on that channel will be in HD.

Whilst I would like a few more HD channels on Sky, overall I think that they do a very good job with getting plenty of HD content onto our screens. At least 90% of movies on HD channels are in HD and a good percentage of sport is in HD also.

I enjoy watching tennis and I have watched quite a bit of the French Open. Obviously I would prefer to see this in HD but I understand the reasons why it is not. At least the Australian Open was in HD. I love my NRL and English soccer and would love all of the games to be in HD but I accept that this is not possible at this stage. I am grateful for the amount of HD content that is provided though.

Finally the HD ticket is only $10 a month. This is very cheap when compared to how much HD content we actually get. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

DarkKnight08

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#222034 5-Jun-2009 15:43

MarkX: I love my NRL and English soccer and would love all of the games to be in HD but I accept that this is not possible at this stage. I am grateful for the amount of HD content that is provided though.

Finally the HD ticket is only $10 a month. This is very cheap when compared to how much HD content we actually get. Just my opinion for what it is worth.

If your not from Sky, or do not have any friends from Sky, how do you know the NRL is not available at this stage? That news has not been announced and only someone who works for either Sky or Channel 9 would know that.

Secondly, you say showing someone playing tennis in the advert does not imply every Tennis will be HD? Yes but it implies some Tennis will be in HD. Was the Australian Open in HD = No, Was the French Open in HD = no, is wimbeldon going to be in HD = no? So they are lieing. Your argument will always fail because NHL is live in HD now on Sky and that costs more than the French Open. I know this because I contacted Foxtel who said they will not show NHL as it costs more than the Tennis and no one will watch it. Why the hell is it on Sky then here? Makes you think. From Sky's website:

"John Fellet was born in Arizona, United States". Deceptive piece of sh*t gets things in HD that he wants to watch. Wait for NFL in HD in a few months.

spacedog

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#222045 5-Jun-2009 16:30

MarkX: ... Similarly because a channel is named Sky Sport 1 HD does not suggest that every bit of content on that channel will be in HD....

Mark, I appreciate your viewpoint, but I simply cannot reconcile your above statement with any sense of logic.

If you applied the same reasoning that you mention above it would be like saying, "Just because I have this bottle labeled as French Champagne, doesn't mean that I should expect it be full of French Champagne and it's quite alright that 30% of the contents came from a low quality bulk wine made in Romania."

Wouldn't you feel mislead and be a bit upset if you bought a bottle of Dom Perignon labeled as French Champagne and then found out 90% of the grapes weren't actually from Champagne?

RustyGonad

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#222049 5-Jun-2009 16:54

Look - I was the one that was accused of working for Sky, or that I had buddies there. Fact is I don't work for them or have any buddies there. A small amount of reseach using either Google/Linkedin or looking at some of the other threads I participate in could have easily shown this.

Some research would have also got some people out of the pickle or disappointment they find themselves in over this issue.

Abusing a CEO of a respected NZ company, and implying that he gets what he wants is as stupid as it is niave.

Can someone put it in reasonable terms (without abusing John Fellet or others), what we are actually missing out on (other than the low rating Tennis), and why their service is so mediocre as it has been described.

Reading implication into advets just won't cut it I'm afraid. Does anyone here also believe that a Nissan 4WD is a transformer, or that Kevin Mealamu is running around inside your MySky???

Nor does the argument that 100% of the HD channels were supposed to be in HD all of the time, I personally have never seen this stated anywhere.

Could someone please back this up with some advertising that says something to the effect of 100% HD, 100% of the time???? Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware ie research what you are buying.

If you truly believe you have been lied to or decieved take it to the commerce commission. That is the appropriate forum for this. You will however need to greatly improve the arguments that have been presented on here.

The current coverage of HD sport with a direct NZ interest includes:

Rugby, Netball, Cricket, Soccer, NRL Warriors home games, Golf, etc etc etc - that is a large percentage of what kiwis watch and play. You can hardly call this a foriegn bias. What else exactly do we play or watch in large numbers that isn't being rerpresented. Motorsport maybe - F1 isn't in HD, Nascar is and we get that, V8's are on 3, but not filmed in HD...

Does anyone actually know the rating for the Tennis? Can you provide a business case to Sky for why they should actually spend the money. Will they obtain incremental advertising revenue from it by having it in HD?

DS9

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#222113 5-Jun-2009 22:59

The World is going along the lines of SD channel + HD channel. All NZ Broadcasters and Networks currently showing HD have gone to the HD only channel map. I have have a MY SKY HDi but I cannot see the SD version SKY Sport etc... so when I and many other who have an HDi watch SKY Sport HD, we are not expecting everything to be in HD just an upscaled SD version. Maybe we should have followed the UK.. Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 1 HD, Sky Sports 2, Sky Sports 2 HD etc.. or the US/Canada FOX, FOX HD, NBC, NBC HD. If you get my point, to assume everything is in HD just because we recieve the HD version is abit naive, I accept the point that maybe you would like to have access to both versions and only HD on the HD channel. I like all SD upscaled it just looks better but that is my opinion, also this forum should not allow insults of public or private citizens and that should either be removed or edited out.

I aim to misbehave.

spacedog

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#222117 5-Jun-2009 23:28

RustyGonad:

....Reading implication into advets just won't cut it I'm afraid. Does anyone here also believe that a Nissan 4WD is a transformer, or that Kevin Mealamu is running around inside your MySky???

Nor does the argument that 100% of the HD channels were supposed to be in HD all of the time, I personally have never seen this stated anywhere.

Your exaggeration of my original argument is fallacious and I refer to my previous post.

I'm quite keen to have someone explain how my previous example is not an accurate analogy of the SD content on SkySport HD.

p.s. I'm just having fun arguing a point here...there no need for any of us to get our panties in a bunch

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