F1-HD SKY compression?

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link2007

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Master Geek

#75141 13-Jan-2011 12:25

Now that F1 is in HD, which is broadcast by sky, do any of you know if SKY can deliver it in 42 Megabits/second (MPEG-2) as per the FOM press release?

thanks

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425 posts

Ultimate Geek

#426829 13-Jan-2011 12:48

I can't fully answer your question, but I will tell you that Sky's HD channels are MPEG-4 AVC (H.264), not MPEG-2, so they should be able to deliver equivalent quality at a lower bitrate.

Of course, Sky probably won't deliver equivalent quality, but I can't answer for certain.

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vexxxboy

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#426837 13-Jan-2011 13:10

do you know if Sky are showing it in HD, just because they can doesnt mean they will, do any races fall on the rugby world cup matches or cricket or any other more popular sport , another good reason for Sky to expand its hd

Common sense is not as common as you think.

Talkiet

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#426839 13-Jan-2011 13:19

First question is whether Sky will bother... They don't have a particularly good history with motorsport, live F1 has been bumped before for cricket replays.

I have tweeted asking them to confirm F1 in HD. Please all do the same, if they get bombarded with the request, at least someone there might feel a slight pang of guilt as they decide to broadcast it on Sky Sports 3 in about 200kbps :-)

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

craft1

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Master Geek

#426842 13-Jan-2011 13:25

A slight tangent on the topic, but last year I noticed that the quality was always better on Sky Sport than on the TVNZ news. Is this possibly because of Sky upscaling?
ie: on Sky Sports the quality was pretty good (albeit on my oldish 32" TV), then the following day on TV1 news if they had clips from the race, it would generally look very grainy compared. I know it wasnt in HD on Sky, but it always seemed an awful lot better quality.

ockel

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#426862 13-Jan-2011 14:35

Does anyone know if Bernie is asking more for a HD feed vs a SD feed?

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sbiddle

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#426921 13-Jan-2011 19:45

Delivering a 1080i feed at 42Mbps is hugely inefficient. Broadcasters can't natively produce much of their stuff in H.264 yet since MPEG2 is still the norm but that can easily be transmitted using H.264 at a vastly lower bitrate and 90% of people wouldn't be able to spot the difference.

To answer the question however there is no way Sky would transmit a feed and use that bandwidth - neither will any other broadcaster around the world.

Have Sky said if they will carry F1 in HD this year? The big question will be where the feed is available in this part of the world.

Talkiet

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#426929 13-Jan-2011 20:04

sbiddle: Delivering a 1080i feed at 42Mbps is hugely inefficient. Broadcasters can't natively produce much of their stuff in H.264 yet since MPEG2 is still the norm but that can easily be transmitted using H.264 at a vastly lower bitrate and 90% of people wouldn't be able to spot the difference.

To answer the question however there is no way Sky would transmit a feed and use that bandwidth - neither will any other broadcaster around the world.

Have Sky said if they will carry F1 in HD this year? The big question will be where the feed is available in this part of the world.

Formula 1 management have said they'll make the 42mbps feed available to all broadcasters worldwide ... Obviously no-one is going to rebroadcast at that level but it gives them the choice of what to do with it...

And no, Sky NZ haven't made any comments yet - everyone whould bombard their twitter / email / phone etc with requests for it.

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mentalinc

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#426943 13-Jan-2011 20:39

They are probably recording it at that bitrate to sell on blu ray etc so might as well offer it up since its nothing in the world of Fibre digital broadcasting.

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Talkiet

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#427136 14-Jan-2011 13:14

Wow... just got a 'response' from Sky on whether they will be broadcasting F1 in HD...

Thank you for your email.

We understand that 2011 Formula 1 will be filmed in HD but we are not confirming to our customers at this stage. We will be waiting for coverage to begin and confirm the feed that we receive is HD before promising to customers.

That's one of the laziest responses I've seen... Let me paraphrase...

"Yeah, we heard F1 is HD this year, but I can't be bothered finding out if we'll broadcast it in HD. Why don't you just wait and see what happens for the first race, then we'll both know"

Disgusting... Imagine if they gave that answer for a Rugby event or the Olympics etc...

Sky have always hated motorsport if you go by their actions and record of what gets bumped and failing to broadcast any of the buildup material - so I'm not surprised...

I'm just glad there are alternatives I could use - but I'd prefer to pay and get it live in HD.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Jaxson

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#427137 14-Jan-2011 13:25

sbiddle: The big question will be where the feed is available in this part of the world.

Damn right, I'll have me a bit of that thanks if it's on offer via any satellite I can receive!

Yeah there's only room for so much off the satellite. The cooking channel and the other 50 or so offerings all do their bit to cut down the available bandwidth. You may get more a lot of the time though as F1 doesn't usually clash with other local sport offerings that might also be in HD. As mentioned though, no one would spot the difference really at a much lower bitrate, so either way it should look better than it ever has this year.

allstarnz

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#427146 14-Jan-2011 13:44

I'd put a small amount of money that Sky will show F1 in HD where possible. It's probably their most watched motorsport, and if they don't have to fork out extra for it, they'll be up for it. To be fair to Sky, there are few sports that they get in HD which will be downscaled. Picking up the rights for stuff is a whole different kettle of fish.

Dorna has filmed MotoGP in HD since last year, and where there was nothing else on the two HD sports channels, Sky would show it in HD (which was not very often, as MotoGP was the first thing to get shafted if they couldn't show it live on Sun night).

As for the bitrate, everything is usually downscaled bitrates by broadcasters, not just Sky. The Medibank International tennis uplink for Seven last night (via Globecast) was running at 10mb/s MPEG2 SD. There is no way in hell that any broadcaster will show it at that. I think Sky were running it at about 4-5mb/s, which is usually OK quality. As for F1 if they get it at 42 (dunno if FOM will feed in MPEG2 or MPEG4, you'd MPEG2 at that bitrate), I suspect Sky will put it through at around 10mb/s MPEG4, which will look pretty damned sharp in my opinion. I suspect the e-mail that Talkiet got is just them playing it safe. They didn't confirm the first MotoGP race being in HD till very very close to the race.

Craft1 - it's not just TVNZ that are guilty of that. Both them and TV3 news feeds of sport off Sky look absolute rubbish. I don't know how they obtain them, but it really seems sometimes like they haven't got pure digital recordings off Sky. It looks very grainy, even the stuff which Sky show in HD.

Sky will very seldom bump live sport for replays, unless part of the time window does clash with another live event. I don't think Sky have bumped a single F1 RACE since they have had coverage (I could stand corrected). They will sometimes move qualifying by a few hours, especially at the start and end of the season, when the races clash with other bigger events in primetime.

Zippity

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#427248 14-Jan-2011 19:07

Last season there were several NASCAR races screened on Sky Sport that were shown in HD.

Hopefully F1 will be this year.

sbiddle

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#427255 14-Jan-2011 20:05

Quoting a source here

I am pleased to confirm that from the first event of the 2011 Championship and for every other event throughout the year, the International Feed will now be originated and offered in High Definition. This will apply for all sessions including Official Support events such as GP2, GP3 and the Porsche Supercup. The feed itself will be offered in 42 Mb/s MPEG2 throughout the world with a 22 Mb/s MPEG 4 option for the Americas.

Once again, for 2011, there will be 2 feeds both of which will be in High Definition. The content of each feed will be exactly the same, one feed will be the Wide International Feed (WIF); this will be a dirty 16:9 Broadcast with full 16:9 aspect ratio graphics with embedded audio. The second signal will be the Narrow International Feed (NIF); this will be a dirty 16:9 Broadcast with 4:3 safe area graphics also with embedded audio. The audio will consist of a Stereo Mix on Ch. 1 and a surround sound 5.1 Mix encoded as Dolby E Bitstream on Ch. 2.

allstarnz

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#427274 14-Jan-2011 21:09

sbiddle: Quoting a source here

....

The audio will consist of a Stereo Mix on Ch. 1 and a surround sound 5.1 Mix encoded as Dolby E Bitstream on Ch. 2.

very very interesting. Does the above bit mean the World Feed will be proper 5.1 soundtrack? (excuse my ignorance)

That is my current biggest gripe with Sky. As someone who has a proper 5.1 surround system, I find it highly annoying that none of their overseas content comes with proper 5.1 audio. We used to get UK and Australian cricket with proper surround, but no longer (Australia is probably out of Sky's control though). I can attest from the sample videos I have acquired that NASCAR etc with proper 5.1 surround really adds to the experience.

with a 22 Mb/s MPEG 4 option for the Americas.

think this answers another question from earlier. Yes, I suspect Sky will scale this down, as 22mb/s will chock up too much space on a transponder.

Ignite

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Geek

#436352 7-Feb-2011 16:23

https://twitter.com/skynz/status/34390498365939713

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