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# 100098 3-Apr-2012 11:05
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This is interesting since it appears that we are ahead of the US in that the major Telco's have agreed on the one system and are cooperating with the major payment gateway.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10796151

I stuck this in the Android forum since I am not aware of any IOS devices that have NFC and this technology will use NFC.

Of the Android devices I aware of that have NFC, I can think of the Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus, Samsung Galaxy S2(?) and possibly some of the newer phones coming out like the HTC One.

As an aside my daughter has a Nexus S in the US on T-Mobile. But the Google Wallet app is only available on ATT. I have suggested to her she borrows an ATT SIM, logs onto the Play Store to get the app and then put her T-Mobile SIM back. She should then be able to register for Google Wallet and use it. There are quite a few department and clothing store chains that accept Google Wallet so it would be useful for her.




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  # 604425 3-Apr-2012 11:45
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I think the correct forum should be the Mobile Handsets which covers all devices.

Good to hear the telcos are all in this as they are the primary channel for all NFC user devices to be sold. Not sure whats in it for them in terms of a business model apart from selling more smartphones.

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  # 604470 3-Apr-2012 12:37
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If it's going to rely on new cell fones coming into the market to replace the current ones then this could takes years before it gets any traction unless they bring in the SIM card overlays i saw on BBC TVs Click last year and why wasn't the SGS2 sold here have the NFC chip built in like some in Asia..??




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  # 604476 3-Apr-2012 12:52
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The debate here is whether the SIM card forms the secure element or whether the phone should have a chip to act as the secure element. From a technical point of the view IMHO the SIM acting as the secure element is far more logical.

Those with NFC phones can already use the Mastercard Paypass app on their phone, and this is what Vodafone and one of the banks (BNZ from memory) are already trialling. Using NFC SIM's or stickers is a total waste of time because it doesn't allow interaction with the phone, the beauty of which is that you can view things such as your account balance etc on your phone.


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  # 604479 3-Apr-2012 12:53
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I would prefer it to be SIM independent as surely the mobile companies want to clip the ticket if it goes through them?




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  # 604505 3-Apr-2012 13:16
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sbiddle: The debate here is whether the SIM card forms the secure element or whether the phone should have a chip to act as the secure element. From a technical point of the view IMHO the SIM acting as the secure element is far more logical.

Those with NFC phones can already use the Mastercard Paypass app on their phone, and this is what Vodafone and one of the banks (BNZ from memory) are already trialling. Using NFC SIM's or stickers is a total waste of time because it doesn't allow interaction with the phone, the beauty of which is that you can view things such as your account balance etc on your phone.



When I was in the US last time I noticed a bunch of POS devices that supported NFC payments like Google Wallet.



While I did have a NFC capable phone (the Nexus S) Google Wallet was not available on that phone on T-Mobile (as I noted in the original post, it's now available on AT&T). So I used my OneSmart card which worked.

But the point that Steve maes about having your account balance on the screen is quite valid. At one point I tried to use my OneSmart card and it was rejected. I was sure I had enough money so I used my phone to access the OneSmart web site which was pretty slow given the 3G i nthe department store was quite weak, and look at my account and see the balance. It was 20c short!  So I asked the store to redo the transaction minus $1 and I paid the balance in cash. Had I seen that on the phone immediately through an app like Google Wallet, it would have been much easier.






Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

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  # 604549 3-Apr-2012 13:43
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sbiddle: The debate here is whether the SIM card forms the secure element or whether the phone should have a chip to act as the secure element. From a technical point of the view IMHO the SIM acting as the secure element is far more logical.

Those with NFC phones can already use the Mastercard Paypass app on their phone, and this is what Vodafone and one of the banks (BNZ from memory) are already trialling. Using NFC SIM's or stickers is a total waste of time because it doesn't allow interaction with the phone, the beauty of which is that you can view things such as your account balance etc on your phone.



I would assume smartphone based apps will provide better functionalities, however SIM based apps will provide more support across many other devices not necessary phones.  My limited knowledge of SIM technology is that it is a unique identifier, its also a secure(ish) information store for not only the phone lists but also things like PKI certificates and very basic apps/Java applets that can be execute on different types of devices.

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  # 604562 3-Apr-2012 14:02
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There was a discussion created for this on another forum.

This obviously shouldn't be neither on Android nor iOS as this won't be specific to a single platform. I have moved this.





 
 
 
 


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  # 604566 3-Apr-2012 14:10
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sbiddle: Those with NFC phones can already use the Mastercard Paypass app on their phone, and this is what Vodafone and one of the banks (BNZ from memory) are already trialling. 


BNZ and Vodafone staff trial.




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  # 604592 3-Apr-2012 14:41
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+1 on the ticket clipping. Everyone sees this as another revenue stream, just like the already existing AirNZ cards, the prezzy cards, snapper etc.

If it is as cheap as my eftpos card (no cost per transaction), you will have me, otherwise not interested.

Jon

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  # 604595 3-Apr-2012 14:51
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Yeah, what is the advantage for the consumer in NFC/phone payment? 

I can see it being a motivator to buy a new phone/ POS terminal / infrastructure but is anybody actually crying out to pay for things with their phone?  

I am guessing when the phone battery dies so does your ability to shop?  




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  # 604607 3-Apr-2012 15:13
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They seem to think it's not going to be in general use until next year (according to the Stuff article), so plenty of time for them to supply people with NFC solutions. Very few handsets currently on the market, particularly in NZ, support NFC.

It'll upset the Apple brigade unless the iPhone5 supports it (I wouldn't hold my breath).

The SGS2 supports it via software, but unless we get a SIM solution, then it's going to involve a lot of people buying a lot of new phones if they want to use the feature.

Much like chips on EFTPOS/Credit cards, it's going to take at least a couple of years to reach any meaningful level of usage I'd imagine, probably more so due to the expense in getting new devices to use it.

The only obvious advantage to my eyes is that you supposedly don't need to carry your cards around any more, but as you probably have a wallet anyway for other cards (loyalty cards, drivers license, etc) then there's not likely to be much benefit for most.

Some of the asian-market phones have the NFC hardware in the battery, some in the phone itself, and some in the SIM cards. Should be interesting to see how it pans out.






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  # 604614 3-Apr-2012 15:36
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stevenz: ..

Some of the asian-market phones have the NFC hardware in the battery, some in the phone itself, and some in the SIM cards. Should be interesting to see how it pans out.


The Galaxy Nexus has the NFC chip in the phone but the antenna in the battery! I discovered this when I bought one in HK and it came with a geniune Samsung battery for HK$99 and it said NFC battery. I wasn't sure what that meant until I looked at another battery that the store provided which said if this battery is installed it will disable NFC (which really means it won't be there).




Staying in Wellington. Check out my AirBnB in the Wellington CBD.  https://www.airbnb.co.nz/rooms/32019730  Mention GZ to get a 10% discount

 

System One: Popcorn Hour A200,  PS3 SuperSlim, NPVR and Plex Server running on Gigabyte Brix (Windows 10 Pro), Sony BDP-S390 BD player, Pioneer AVR, Raspberry Pi running Kodi and Plex, Panasonic 60" 3D plasma, Google Chromecast

System Two: Popcorn Hour A200 ,  Oppo BDP-80 BluRay Player with hardware mode to be region free, Vivitek HD1080P 1080P DLP projector with 100" screen, Denon AVRS730H 7.2 Channel Dolby Atmos/DTS-X AV Receiver, Samsung 4K player, Google Chromecast, Odroid C2 running Kodi and Plex

 

 


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  # 604631 3-Apr-2012 16:21
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stevenz: They seem to think it's not going to be in general use until next year (according to the Stuff article), so plenty of time for them to supply people with NFC solutions. Very few handsets currently on the market, particularly in NZ, support NFC.

It'll upset the Apple brigade unless the iPhone5 supports it (I wouldn't hold my breath).

The SGS2 supports it via software, but unless we get a SIM solution, then it's going to involve a lot of people buying a lot of new phones if they want to use the feature.

Much like chips on EFTPOS/Credit cards, it's going to take at least a couple of years to reach any meaningful level of usage I'd imagine, probably more so due to the expense in getting new devices to use it.

The only obvious advantage to my eyes is that you supposedly don't need to carry your cards around any more, but as you probably have a wallet anyway for other cards (loyalty cards, drivers license, etc) then there's not likely to be much benefit for most.

Some of the asian-market phones have the NFC hardware in the battery, some in the phone itself, and some in the SIM cards. Should be interesting to see how it pans out.


One benefit is that you will be able to combine your other cards (loyalty, drivers licence etc) into just digital info on your phone aswell as your credit/debit cards.

 

Don’t know about you but I must have almost a dozen loyalty cards from various places (OneCard, 2-3 Coffee places, Subway, to name a few)  . It is a pain in the butt to fish around for the right one every time I want to use it.

 

 

I agree though that phone battery may be an issue for smartphones.  Not personally for me since I have a charger at home, one in the car, and one at work.  But for some people will be a pain.

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  # 604634 3-Apr-2012 16:35
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NonprayingMantis: One benefit is that you will be able to combine your other cards (loyalty, drivers licence etc) into just digital info on your phone aswell as your credit/debit cards.

Don’t know about you but I must have almost a dozen loyalty cards from various places (OneCard, 2-3 Coffee places, Subway, to name a few)  . It is a pain in the butt to fish around for the right one every time I want to use it. 

I agree though that phone battery may be an issue for smartphones.  Not personally for me since I have a charger at home, one in the car, and one at work.  But for some people will be a pain.



True, I have the Subway Subcard app on my phone, which means one less card in my wallet, with the advantage that I can check the points balance & etc when in the shop. 

I'd like to see more loyalty cards replaced by apps, if I get any more cards in my wallet, I'll be able to play poker with them.   

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  # 604647 3-Apr-2012 17:00
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crackrdbycracku: Yeah, what is the advantage for the consumer in NFC/phone payment? 

I can see it being a motivator to buy a new phone/ POS terminal / infrastructure but is anybody actually crying out to pay for things with their phone?  

I am guessing when the phone battery dies so does your ability to shop?  


Every EFTPOS terminal in NZ needs to be NFC capable by 2014 when all non EMV6.0 terminals are culled from the network.

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