New build smart 'stuff' Shelly vs PDL Wiser

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › New build smart 'stuff' Shelly vs PDL Wiser

uppynz

51 posts

Master Geek

#298753 13-Jul-2022 14:05

In a predicament where I need to decide on what items to put in our new build in terms of smart home. Not looking to go overboard, but some requirements below;

App controlled
Home assistant integration
Value for money
Scalable (don't want to get locked into one product and find in 2 years time its not supported)
Lighting control and dimmable
Some powerpoints app controlled
Power usage info from mains (nice to have not essential)

I know that's quite broad... The electrician who is a friend of mine, is keen on the PDL Wiser range. I'm leaning more to Shelly products. It looks like PDL wiser can integrate with Home assistant https://github.com/asantaga/wiserHomeAssistantPlatform

It seems though that PDL may not have a wide range of options available in NZ yet, and they might be considerably higher price than others.

What would you choose, and why?

tweake

2391 posts

Uber Geek

#2941504 13-Jul-2022 14:24

imho only get automation that you can afford to replace in a few years time.

generally tech gets out of date fast, it very quickly becomes unsupported. what happens if their is an exploits and the manufacture no longer supports it (or doesn't exist anymore). hence i tend to stick with closed systems that you can replace or things that communicate through existing cables.

i've worked on one place that required a major renovation to replace the automation (needed a rewire) and it was only 10 years old. manufacture had already gone, no parts available. the owners could not even close the blinds.

random173

56 posts

Master Geek

ID Verified

#2941512 13-Jul-2022 14:48

I had PDL Iconic standard plates and switches when the place was built, and replaced a couple of light switches with the BT/Zigbee Dimmer (41EPBDWCLMZ is the new Zigbee p/n). Once the Zigbee FW was rolled-out to the push-button dimmer, I paired it to HA using a Conbee first, and now I'm using a ZigStar Lan coordinator with Zigbee2MQTT. Using the official app was easier to set the dimming range etc, you can adjust the minimum level through Zigbee2MQTT but I haven't got around to that yet. I haven't gone down the path of the connected power points as they are expensive and my only use would be power monitoring which I don't know if they expose.

Pros:

Simple OEM look and functionality
Nicest LED indicator
If you have slave switches you can order the 354PBSSL which has an LED indicator too
Push to dim/adjust works well (also from any slave PBSS/L switch)
Nice big terminals on the back for wiring etc
Nice and quiet relay for ON/OFF
No issues with Zigbee network

Cons:

My combination of downlights suffer with this dimmer and ripple control
No power consumption support that I'm aware of
You run into limitations, switches are expensive (Shelly 2.5 can run bathroom lights and fan for example - with power monitoring)

I'm currently trialing some Shelly devices for some heated towel rails and couple of light circuits.

Pros:

Easy integration to Home Assistant
Can reconfigure the switch to do anything you want in Home Assistant if you need
Set timers etc on the switch if you like (however I will use NodeRed or HA)
Power monitoring (if you get 1PM or 2.5etc)
Can be run in detached mode (see down further)

Cons:

If you only run one switch per faceplate, PDL might be cheaper (once you factor shelly + push button mech)
You can hear the relay click
The terminals are small, space behind the switch can still be an issue
The cheap Iconic rocker switch supports an LED but its dim as hell, and its spring is too firm, the standard psuh button mech (354PBSS) is spendy.

In the end, my goal is to change them all to Shelly, and run them in detached mode with Hue downlights. This means you can keep power to the lights, and issue software commands for the lighting control. If you flash ESPHome onto the Shelly you can set the switches to run in detached mode, but if the server or HA box goes down, it will toggle the power relay instead. Once the Hue lights arrive I will test this. Looking forward to having the lights change colour temp with time of day!

Hope this helps!

MadEngineer

4274 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2941513 13-Jul-2022 14:50

The Wiser product seems perfect on that regard. The gear is just modules that can click in place or alongside of your existing mechs. The app works well too.

Worst case scenario and the whole thing stops working due to the company no longer updating it? Swap the mechs out for plain switches.

They can also be wired in two or multi-way fashion for example with another plain switch mech.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

uppynz

51 posts

Master Geek

#2941575 13-Jul-2022 17:41

Thanks for all the replies, it's been really useful! I guess there is no reason why I couldn't do a combination of both, although that might create more work as the end user potentially.

My sparky has arranged a meeting with the PDL iconic showroom geeks next week so I'll quizz them up. It might be the most straightforward way to go as I'm only really looking to automate some lights not all, and I see their outdoor PowerPoints can also link into wiser as well which could be useful.

I liked how the Shelly's didn't need a hub and connected directly to wifi. Hopefully I can have a good play with the gear next week and make some decisions!

Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2941620 13-Jul-2022 20:23

We got a quote for PDL Wiser pre-covid for our renovation.

It doubled the cost (from PDL Iconic to Iconic+Wiser). I wasn't really sold on it anyway. I went for all Shelly in the end. So happy I did.

Voyager referral - https://refer.voyager.nz/68QKJ8XKK

uppynz

51 posts

Master Geek

#2941626 13-Jul-2022 20:39

Psilan:
We got a quote for PDL Wiser pre-covid for our renovation.

It doubled the cost (from PDL Iconic to Iconic+Wiser). I wasn't really sold on it anyway. I went for all Shelly in the end. So happy I did.

Thanks, yeah I'm expecting the prices to be up there. Do you run push button mechanisms with your Shelly's to avoid the switch being in the wrong setting if app controlled?

Psilan

856 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2941637 13-Jul-2022 20:58

I did, but didn't like them. I still have some set up that I want to swap back.

The up down thing is actually meaningless so I have it set to any switch changes current state for lights. It really doesn't matter and isn't "wrong". Try it lol. Nobody has complained.

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uppynz

51 posts

Master Geek

#2941641 13-Jul-2022 21:05

Psilan: I did, but didn't like them. I still have some set up that I want to swap back.

The up down thing is actually meaningless so I have it set to any switch changes current state for lights. It really doesn't matter and isn't "wrong". Try it lol. Nobody has complained.

You're probably not wrong. All this time and research spent on switches but no one else in the family will notice or care about haha

ANglEAUT

2320 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2942461 15-Jul-2022 22:17

uppynz:
Psilan: I did, but didn't like them. I still have some set up that I want to swap back.

The up down thing is actually meaningless so I have it set to any switch changes current state for lights. It really doesn't matter and isn't "wrong". Try it lol. Nobody has complained.

You're probably not wrong. All this time and research spent on switches but no one else in the family will notice or care about haha

It's simple, you simply flick the switch, no matter which way. We have a passage with 3 light switches & a stair well with light switches at the top & bottom. These are all traditional switches, no smarts.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

uppynz

51 posts

Master Geek

#2948708 31-Jul-2022 22:23

So just a quick update. I went out in visited the PDL showroom in highbrook a couple of weeks ago which was very well setup. They had a mock house set up with all the wiser gear to play with ranging from basic requirements through to full scale automation. I did ask about integration with the likes of home assistant, however the rep said that they were very strict on security and had no intention to support 3rd party applications, I'm not sure if he understood home assistant. It looks as though there are some 3rd party apps which have been made for the UK version 'drayton wiser'

My own research brought up various different variations of the wiser product through other parts of the world. Some have many more products that what is currently available here such as smoke alarms and thermostats. I asked the rep if there were any further products due to be released and at this stage there wasn't but he said they are always taking onboard feedback from consumers and working with Schneider.

My sparky has installed a wiser hub and wiser light switch at our place we are currently at to trial, it was simple to set up and easy to use. I did find it interesting that there was no RGB control option for the likes of led strips.

I have a Shelly product getting installed this week to compare.

I think if they had home assistant natively supported it would be enough to convince me.