3kW Grid Tied Solar PV: Watts and Warts.

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#1169688 6-Nov-2014 07:47

Bugger.

E3xtc

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#1169939 6-Nov-2014 12:19

while initially I thought "bugger" also, I suppose it comes back to ensuring your solar array is appropriately sized to cater for your use. So while a considerable drop, I don't think it is a major headache...I know I have extra capacity with mine; but I will just start leaving the lights on during the day :P

Now how about a nice easily accessible (read = cheap enough) battery storage system we can use :)

linw

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#1170030 6-Nov-2014 14:00

And ain't that the real killer here. There is no shortage of energy but there is no economical way of storing it. A hydro lake is one good way of storing energy but it doesn't scale down well!!

freemark

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#1170034 6-Nov-2014 14:07

E3xtc: while initially I thought "bugger" also, I suppose it comes back to ensuring your solar array is appropriately sized to cater for your use. So while a considerable drop, I don't think it is a major headache...I know I have extra capacity with mine; but I will just start leaving the lights on during the day :P

Now how about a nice easily accessible (read = cheap enough) battery storage system we can use :)

I agree. Size a system well..FIT's are bound to change over the life of your system anyway, but use what you make if no one is going to buy it for a good price.

I can do you a smart little hybrid unit with 7.6kWh of Li-Ion storage including a 4.5kW Inverter for a around $21k plus Gst...not cheap but coming down...

E3xtc

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#1170050 6-Nov-2014 14:27

freemark:
E3xtc: while initially I thought "bugger" also, I suppose it comes back to ensuring your solar array is appropriately sized to cater for your use. So while a considerable drop, I don't think it is a major headache...I know I have extra capacity with mine; but I will just start leaving the lights on during the day :P

Now how about a nice easily accessible (read = cheap enough) battery storage system we can use :)

I agree. Size a system well..FIT's are bound to change over the life of your system anyway, but use what you make if no one is going to buy it for a good price.

I can do you a smart little hybrid unit with 7.6kWh of Li-Ion storage including a 4.5kW Inverter for a around $21k plus Gst...not cheap but coming down...

Ouch - so that 21k is on top of the cost of the actual solar system (4kw - ability to increase to 5kw if requirements dictate) already up and running....daaaayam, at that price it isn't even getting a look in :)

freemark

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#1170054 6-Nov-2014 14:38

E3xtc:
freemark:
E3xtc: while initially I thought "bugger" also, I suppose it comes back to ensuring your solar array is appropriately sized to cater for your use. So while a considerable drop, I don't think it is a major headache...I know I have extra capacity with mine; but I will just start leaving the lights on during the day :P

Now how about a nice easily accessible (read = cheap enough) battery storage system we can use :)

I agree. Size a system well..FIT's are bound to change over the life of your system anyway, but use what you make if no one is going to buy it for a good price.

I can do you a smart little hybrid unit with 7.6kWh of Li-Ion storage including a 4.5kW Inverter for a around $21k plus Gst...not cheap but coming down...

Ouch - so that 21k is on top of the cost of the actual solar system (4kw - ability to increase to 5kw if requirements dictate) already up and running....daaaayam, at that price it isn't even getting a look in :)

Yeah..no good for you..but those who don't have a system yet only need to add some of our Premium Hyundai 265W Mono Modules (12 would just about suffice), racking, installation.. et viola!

wellygary

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#1170137 6-Nov-2014 15:45

I Think it now becoming very clear that for a regular existing grid serviced house with convential usuage peaks ( morning and Evening) Solar is now seriously marginal-

Granted, if you are home during the day, or have somewhere to store your surplus ( HW cylinder or pool or big "magic power storage box") you can probably size your install to make the numbers work for you,

It would be really interesting to see a speadsheet with the costs and returns based on what the Feed in rates from Contact and Meeridian were and what they are now, and see what the changes have done to the ROI times

SumnerBoy

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#1170179 6-Nov-2014 16:34

My spreadsheet shows a ROI jump from 9 to 16yrs, with the assumption that 80% of my generation is during the summer months (and thus I only get the 7c/kWh from Meridian).

wellygary

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#1170190 6-Nov-2014 16:59

SumnerBoy: My spreadsheet shows a ROI jump from 9 to 16yrs, with the assumption that 80% of my generation is during the summer months (and thus I only get the 7c/kWh from Meridian).

Ouch!

SumnerBoy

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#1170191 6-Nov-2014 17:00

wellygary: Ouch!

Correct.

richms

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#1170299 6-Nov-2014 20:30

I could use all the output of a 2kw system during the day during summer without problem, and as I intend to not be working fill time again it shouldnt be a major if I get a 3kw system installed. Would just have to be a bit better about not putting doing the washing etc off till 9pm at night because lazy.

Richard rich.ms

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#1170309 6-Nov-2014 20:46

I too was about to point out the goodness at the start of this thread has now turned a little sour.

Enasolar have just updated FB stating they have a new controller about to hit the market, that redirects produced excess to the HWC instead of grid, which helps. But not so much if you already have a well insulated HWC and only require overnight/early AM bursts to regulate

http://www.enasolar.net/Products/immerSUN

Porboynz

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#1170342 6-Nov-2014 21:19

Troubling indeed. I always envisaged that the FIT export rate per kWh would change when calculating the ROI for my installation but I am surprised it has plummeted from $0.25 to $0.07 per kWh. It raises all sorts of interesting questions about Meridians original strategy and why did it change? Perhaps it was a green initiative that fitted with their other generation sources but got out of control and proved not to be the marketing advantage they envisaged? If $0.07 per kWh is the wholesale price then what other business do you know of that buys for $1 dollar and sells for $3.50? Sounds horribly inefficient or maybe its needed to top up the Board members and CxO's salaries, they are very well paid folk from all accounts. IT margins are often < 5% for hardware and software.

In Greville Rd near where I live there is a Z Petrol station directly opposite a Gull petrol station and they seem to have the cheapest fuel in Auckland. The Z station is nearly always $0.01 per litre more expensive but they track each other up and down giving the appearance of competition. Contact and Meridian are behaving the same but in reverse, Meridian waited until Contact moved and swiftly followed. (very swiftly for a large corporation) Its hard to believe there was a cosy discussion had somewhere about pricing, that would be anti competitive and we have a Commerce Commission that takes a very dim view of that. (Carter Holt recently paid $1.85M fine for a timber price fixing cartel infringement) It must have been a co-incidence, must buy a Lotto ticket this weekend.

It will be interesting to see what Meridian has in store for existing customers, they are yet to reveal any change as far as I am aware. I have always believed that a fair scheme for the electricity retailer would be to rate the export tariff at a few cents lower than what they charge me for imported power and limit the export kWh credit to a maximum equal to the imported kWh's. Not that I want to put ideas in some accountants head, but I think any scheme needs to be sustainable and not be subsidised unless its for the greater good. (reduces global warming, cures disease, prevents wars and frees up Auckland's motorways)

Oh well, at least my kids will be happy, they can now run the heat pump on the cooling cycle in summer.

***If only I did not know now what I did not know then***

bfginger

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#1170358 6-Nov-2014 21:38

SumnerBoy: My spreadsheet shows a ROI jump from 9 to 16yrs, with the assumption that 80% of my generation is during the summer months (and thus I only get the 7c/kWh from Meridian).

New Zealand's electrical peaks are in winter evenings and not summer days so the feed in tariff in summer can only decline. When that's taken into account the return on investment may go lower than buying shares in the electricity companies. On the Enasolar FB page they say they expect more cuts next year.

Despite the problems I wrote about earlier I think solar thermal is better value for most residential solar installations until PV becomes cheaper. If anyone already has a PV installation they should look at some way of optimising hot water storage like the immerSun unit. The insulation on new HW cylinders can be weak so something like a Greenstuf Ecowrap insulation kit will help retain more heat.

wellygary

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#1170894 7-Nov-2014 14:35

bfginger: On the Enasolar FB page they say they expect more cuts next year.

Some dude from Meridian on morning report this AM (7th Nov) said they will be reviewing their feed in rates for existing solar connections in the new year,

I suspect Contact will probably be looking to do the same....

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