Adding electrical outlet in wardrobe

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#801227 17-Apr-2013 22:24

Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

You can never have enough Volvos!

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#801507 18-Apr-2013 12:00

Niel:
Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

Couldn't see anything in there about prohibiting star wiring (granted I scanned it quickly) - it mentions wiring from point to point, however it does not state that any other method is prohibited?

gregmcc

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#801838 18-Apr-2013 19:15

Niel:
Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

you can safely ignore this code of practice as the electrical regs don't apply to extra low voltage wiring, such as phone and data.

TechSol

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#802161 19-Apr-2013 11:20

gregmcc:
Niel:
Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

you can safely ignore this code of practice as the electrical regs don't apply to extra low voltage wiring, such as phone and data.

I think the OP is talking about installing a socket off a nearby light switch to power a network switch, which is ELV and so this definitely applies :)

gregmcc

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#802385 19-Apr-2013 16:43

Evilg:
gregmcc:
Niel:
Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

you can safely ignore this code of practice as the electrical regs don't apply to extra low voltage wiring, such as phone and data.

I think the OP is talking about installing a socket off a nearby light switch to power a network switch, which is ELV and so this definitely applies :)

A standard socket is not ELV, it is LV (Low voltage)

Niel

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#802530 19-Apr-2013 21:06

Evilg:
Niel:
Evilg:
...

I'm under the impression (from reading the wiring standard long ago) that you are not allowed to make star connections (or T-off), wiring must go from one point to the next (and without joints).

Not true on both accounts

Please comment on the electrical safety regulations 2010 that site the electrical code of practice #51 for domestic installations which does not allow star connections. I realise this is a code of practice, but it is sited in a regulation.

Couldn't see anything in there about prohibiting star wiring (granted I scanned it quickly) - it mentions wiring from point to point, however it does not state that any other method is prohibited?

Clause 3.3.3 and figure 5. It is not 100% clear, but it says to wire from the switchboard to the first socket, then in and out of each additional socket. If star is allowed then they would not go to the extend of specifying in and out of each additional socket, they would simply say to wire all sockets together.

If you have a start connection, how do you perform the installation test where you draw a high current at the far end of the installation and check for a maximum voltage drop? While testing one branch you will have no current in the other branches.

Per definition, isn't a star connection actually multiple circuits?

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chevrolux

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#802546 19-Apr-2013 21:42

I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

boby55

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#802566 19-Apr-2013 22:43

chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

The electrical reg's are defiantly aren't ones that you class a "General Guide Lines" not only can your insurance company not payout if work doesn't have COC, It can seriously injure somebody if not kill them.

While there are many DIY jobs I do (Such as Network / Coax Cabling), Electricity is one I leave up to the professionals and get a sparky whenever I need something done.

gregmcc

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#802603 20-Apr-2013 05:30

chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

DarthKermit

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#802633 20-Apr-2013 08:18

gregmcc:
chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

Under current regulations, I think that you're only allowed a max of three outlets per circuit. Is this correct?

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gregmcc

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#802663 20-Apr-2013 09:29

DarthKermit:
gregmcc:
chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

Under current regulations, I think that you're only allowed a max of three outlets per circuit. Is this correct?

I think that your confusing that with the number of circuits per RCD which is 3, but as far as outlets per circuit there is no maximum....but it would be silly to have all your outlets in the house on 1 circuit as you would always be tripping the circuit breaker.

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Brunzy

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#802698 20-Apr-2013 10:39

gregmcc:
chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

I would disagree with that from a safety point of view, the current is still travelling along the 1 /1.5 ml cable of the lighting circuit( that are meant to have 5 /10a fuses / c b's) , and I am pretty sure it is against the regs.

rayonline

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#802703 20-Apr-2013 10:50

In the USA there are guides to tag off the light switch.

I'm just going to put it on top of the cupboard in the laundry room now, 6 inches from the ceiling and just plug the power in with an extension if needed.

No idea if not the light switch and not that downstairs new bedroom cable where the cable gets from, the sparkie might charge $600 for a socket LOL

gregmcc

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#802714 20-Apr-2013 11:13

Brunzy:
gregmcc:
chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

I would disagree with that from a safety point of view, the current is still travelling along the 1 /1.5 ml cable of the lighting circuit( that are meant to have 5 /10a fuses / c b's) , and I am pretty sure it is against the regs.

Why don't you point out this particular reg that says this.

The circuit breaker is sized to protect the cable, it does not matter what kind of connection is on the end of the circuit, weather it be a batten hold for a light bulb or a 3 pin socket or what ever, but remembering that if you are going to plug your 2.4kw heater in to this 3 pin socket supplied by a bit of (Typical light circuit) 1.0mm lighting cable and protected by a correctly fitted 6Amp circuit breaker it will trip.

The misconception here is that the circuit breaker/fuse is sized to protect what ever is connected to the end of the circuit eg light bulb(s) or appliances plugged in to a socket, the circuit breakers are sized to protect the CABLE no matter what kind of load is on the end.

Brunzy

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#802830 20-Apr-2013 16:54

gregmcc:
Brunzy:
gregmcc:
chevrolux: I think that fact is that it would just be flat out dumb to 'star' wire power. Why on earth would you waste expensive cable star wiring. What the OP is talking about sounds a bit dodgy wiring off a light switch. At the end of the day the way I see it is if you have to ask a question about it you shouldnt DIY. I have wired all the extra hot points in my place with absolutely no issue. As lomg as you stick to the general guide line of 6-8 outlets per breaker then you will be sweet as. We can bleat on about regs forever in a day but meh, there is enough cotton wool in this world as it is. A man should be able to wire his own hot point if he wants to.

I guess your right about doing your own electrical work. By the way are you any good at brain surgery? it can't be that hard, the brain is kind of like an electrical circuit, it should be easy. [/sarcasm mode off]

There is a reason why electrical work is regulated, it is the people who think they know what they are doing but in reality don't and end up with dangerous wiring.

BTW no reason why a power point can't be wired off a light switch, provided that the correct size cable is used and the right sized circuit breaker.

I would disagree with that from a safety point of view, the current is still travelling along the 1 /1.5 ml cable of the lighting circuit( that are meant to have 5 /10a fuses / c b's) , and I am pretty sure it is against the regs.

Why don't you point out this particular reg that says this.

The circuit breaker is sized to protect the cable, it does not matter what kind of connection is on the end of the circuit, weather it be a batten hold for a light bulb or a 3 pin socket or what ever, but remembering that if you are going to plug your 2.4kw heater in to this 3 pin socket supplied by a bit of (Typical light circuit) 1.0mm lighting cable and protected by a correctly fitted 6Amp circuit breaker it will trip.

The misconception here is that the circuit breaker/fuse is sized to protect what ever is connected to the end of the circuit eg light bulb(s) or appliances plugged in to a socket, the circuit breakers are sized to protect the CABLE no matter what kind of load is on the end.

I cant , I said I was fairly sure , not adamant.

Regardless of the regs etc , installing an outlet that you cant use a full range of appliances on it
is not something I would recommend

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