Deck build - few questions

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#2851278 15-Jan-2022 22:39

tchart:
If you look at systems like nuraspike or tuffblock none of those would be compliant. Surely for a low deck like the one on the thread there is no danger of serious injury so it wouldn’t need to meet building standards?

https://www.onestopdeckshop.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/nurajack.jpg

The nurajack looks as though it replaces both the pile and the bearer. It will need a good base to sit on - looks as though they show it on a concrete surface. If so not an inexpensive alternative.

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#2851280 15-Jan-2022 22:42

Thats looking very amateur hour.

Are those piles way off being in a line, or is it just a wide angel photo making them look that way?

How is drainage supposed to work with black polyethylene like that?

Nothing temporary about using the fence posts if they haven't put piles in down that side

And as you've already pointed out, its obviously too high.

eracode

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#2851293 15-Jan-2022 23:54

Clima:

The nurajack looks as though it replaces both the pile and the bearer. It will need a good base to sit on - looks as though they show it on a concrete surface. If so not an inexpensive alternative.

Nuraspikes are driven into the ground as an alternative to concreted-in timber piles. They can support bearers in the same way as a timber pile - or can support Nurajacks. Not cheap but massively easier than hole/concrete/timber.

Nurajacks can sit on top of an existing concrete base or can sit on top of Nuraspikes. Nurajacks can support bearers in the same way as a timber pile - of, if you use enough of them, they can replace bearers - in which case the joists sit directly on the Nurajacks.

We used Nurajacks on the concrete slab with watertight membrane base, on the deck that I linked to above.

Nurajacks are certainly not cheap either but give an elegantly simple solution to the problem of fixing piles into or into a concrete base. They are height adjustable and self-levelling so they make it really easy to get a level deck where the underlying base is sloping.

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Bung

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#2851302 16-Jan-2022 05:24

tchart:
If you look at systems like nuraspike or tuffblock none of those would be compliant. Surely for a low deck like the one on the thread there is no danger of serious injury so it wouldn’t need to meet building standards?

https://www.onestopdeckshop.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/nurajack.jpg

NZS3604 is a way of meeting the Building Code, the could be other ways but they'd need an engineered design.

The photos are no substitute for being on site. Often the bit you want to see is not visible but as others have said bearers and joists look undersized. Any timber pile needs to be H5 125x125mm. Some look smaller, some even just blocks of wood lying horizontally on ground (photo 2). It needs to be sorted before committing to screwing the (expensive) decking down,

eracode

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#2851317 16-Jan-2022 08:12

There are so many things wrong with this build, you should sack the builder. If he's cowboy enough to do work like this, I wouldn't trust him or give him a second chance at getting it right. He either has no knowledge of the Building Standard or simply doesn't care - either way he's a major liability. He seems to lack any basic building skills. May be difficult to sack him under the friend circumstance, but that's no reason to persevere with him and end up with a weak, unsafe and non-compliant deck.

Take just one part of one of your photos:

Most of this has been said earlier but this photo summarises it well:

- there's no evidence of any posts in the area up towards the ranch slider

- the 'bearers' look like they are just resting on the polyethylene.

- there should be no polyethylene.

- the bearers are just overlapped at their joins. Presumably nailed. but it looks like that's not the case given gaps showing in the overlaps. Even if they are nailed, this is not acceptable given the way they are sitting unsupported - there's no vertical strength in those joins and they will move.

- joists are too light

- joist spans are too long - more bearers needed

- deck is too high for the house. When you step out from the ranch slider, you will be stepping up onto the kwila. That's a tripping hazard if nothing else.

Nothing less than shocking, shoddy work.

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Jase2985

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#2851323 16-Jan-2022 08:48

was there a concrete patio outside the ranch slider?

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eracode

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#2851326 16-Jan-2022 09:01

Jase2985:

was there a concrete patio outside the ranch slider?

That's a good question and I see what you're getting at - but even if there is/was, the construction is still not right - bearers should not just rest on plastic sheet covering the concrete and there's no need for the plastic in any case.

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wally22

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#2851391 16-Jan-2022 12:16

33coupe: Thanks everyone. I've just been out there and done some measurements, have added the photo to the album, hopefully it can be read. If not please let me know.

I also tried treading on a piece of 30mm timber in between the bearers and you are right, slight spring/soft so not good! Will let them know to stop any more work, will need 2 more bearers.

Thank you for the drawing. As others are still saying, you need a rework of the "plan". I am away for the next 2 weeks so unable to follow through. You really need onsite expertise to fix it or a new design. Note that the building code for floors to 2Kpa applies to freestanding decks but remember that is a minimum. Weather and imperfect timber mean that you really need more to make it last. It looks like your builder may have used standard fence rails (H3.2 #2 grade). H4 is required below 150mm above ground, H5 in contact with ground, else it will rot away in a few(?) years requiring complete rebuild.

I appreciate you are faced with a difficult situation if you dismiss the "builder" . You could approach your local supplier, M10, Bunnings, Placemakers for assistance with design and finding a reputable builder to take over. All the suppliers have technical assistance available as they want happy customers.

richms

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#2851392 16-Jan-2022 12:19

This at best will be the equivalent of some large pallets sitting on the ground as a deck.

Joists dont even look parallel.

Bearer is at a wonky angle to the house.

What the ... is that post at the front left of the photo doing.

That bearer at the front is curved, but that may be the photo doing it.

I would tell them to take it all up and take it away and never come back.

Richard rich.ms

33coupe

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#2851538 16-Jan-2022 16:27

Thanks for the replies everyone, sorry haven't messaged back. Been hectic weekend. I did write a reply but it didn't post then disappeared.

The 30mm piece of timber I was referring to, I found a piece of 1000 X 100 X 30mm piece of timber and stood on it on the joists, in-between the middle of the bearers. And yep it felt a bit springy.

After seeing the water, we're also concerned with moisture and bugs. Would holes in it help, would weeds come up?

There are piles for all the bearers, but the closer ones to picture are pretty close to the ground.

The area outside is just dirt / stones etc not concrete. Fairly hard ground being in Rolleston.

Thanks for all the info in regards to being to code, definitely need to bring that convo up.

Just out of curiosity, would anyone think asking for 2 more bearers would be ok? Or is it just one big cluster f that needs starting again?

I've got a feeling it will be pretty difficult getting the money back from them...

Thanks all

wally22

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#2851546 16-Jan-2022 16:45

2 more bearers is just the start.
If you are happy to replace the deck sooner rather than confront him then that is up to you.

If you fire him then you have to get some money back for labour not done and materials not supplied, else he is stealing from you.

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eracode

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#2851547 16-Jan-2022 16:46

Plastic sheet is not good or necessary under a deck. Will create more problems than it solves. It should be removed. Weeds won’t grow once the kwila is down.

Sorry if this sounds harsh - but IMO you need to start from scratch with a better builder. Piles are too low, you probably don’t have the correct level of timber treatment for some of the uses, you don’t have the correct timber cross-section dimensions for bearers and joists, spacing of bearers is wrong, bearer joints are inadequate, the deck is too high, and it just goes on.

Your deck will be non-compliant on numerous counts. It will also be weak and won’t last.

As advised by @wally22 you need a new plan and probably different timber. And a skilled builder to do it for you.

You mentioned earlier that it’s a ‘cash job’. Have you paid for the whole job up front?

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eracode

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#2851559 16-Jan-2022 17:18

wally22:

2 more bearers is just the start.
If you are happy to replace the deck sooner rather than confront him then that is up to you.

If you fire him then you have to get some money back for labour not done and materials not supplied, else he is stealing from you.

Totally agree - unfortunately putting in two more bearers will not solve the problems with this build - there are too many others.

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33coupe

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#2851568 16-Jan-2022 17:53

Thank you, nope it's all good, I just wanted to check just in case it could be salvaged (hoping for unlikely positive)

After posting my reply I then remembered the timber being used isn't compliant so wouldn't be able to save it anyway

Nope not paid all, $5k, which feels like a lot of money considering amount of 'work' that has been done

eracode

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#2851591 16-Jan-2022 18:52

Good to hear that you’re realistic about it. Even if you end up forfeiting that $5k, it could have been worse (eg. more money paid up-front or maybe not realising there were problems until they became more obvious once it was finished).

In the end now you’ll have a decent deck that you won’t have to be worried about.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

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