Retaining wall $

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#1846808 15-Aug-2017 07:51

I have a few friends who are building apprentices who do their own work on Fridays and some weekends.
They will charge out around $40-$45 an hour for their labor, One friend did a retaining wall up Torbay recently. Was about 10m by 1.5 so similar to yours. It was him and 2 others, took them around 10 working days to complete. The amount of work involved is staggering when you think about it, All the different materials and the fact it must be made to a code..
I wouldn't touch it yourself. I feel your quote is missing 1-2 other men, dumping costs, blades.

kryptonjohn

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#1846817 15-Aug-2017 08:16

That can't be right. 30 man days for a 10m wall? Each of them can only put up .33 of 1.5m wall a day? It would be > $9,000 in labour alone for 10m of wall - $900/m just for the labour when common industry estimates are <= $500/m including material.

Unless there were particular site difficulties with design, access, slope or underground rock that is just insanely slow.

The code is no big deal - no permit or consent required, 150mm H5 rounds at least as deep as high at 1.2 centres and backed with 200x50 H4, with drain coil, sleeve and scoria back fill should do it.

Coil

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#1846840 15-Aug-2017 08:29

kryptonjohn:

That can't be right. 30 man days for a 10m wall? Each of them can only put up .33 of 1.5m wall a day? It would be > $9,000 in labour alone for 10m of wall - $900/m just for the labour when common industry estimates are <= $500/m including material.

Unless there were particular site difficulties with design, access, slope or underground rock that is just insanely slow.

The code is no big deal - no permit or consent required, 150mm H5 rounds at least as deep as high at 1.2 centres and backed with 200x50 H4, with drain coil, sleeve and scoria back fill should do it.

It was a big job with a LOT of wheelbarrowing, They were wheelbarrowing concrete in for 2 days and dirt out for the first week.
Just tight around the side of a house as it was an older development of 3 houses on a slope and the slope started to give way. Imagine 3 town houses perched on a slope with 4m of slope between them.
All jobs vary so I was probably a bit silly to compare two things that are not similar.

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#1846842 15-Aug-2017 08:43

Ooh yeah, now that's making a lot more sense. I feel sorry for those guys. The thing I want to get done allows for a trucks and diggers to drive right up to the work areas (once winter is over and the ground dries).

Not that there's much or any excavation required. Basically dig post holes (with a machine), drop posts in and brace, back up a truck pour the concrete straight into the holes from the truck. Then come back a couple of days later and cut and nail up the boards. The scoria backfill could be the toughest job but it's all below and not above if you know what I mean.

neb

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#1847227 15-Aug-2017 17:55

gregmcc:
Compliance costs - building permits etc

$30/hr, I'm sure they charge way more than that, I would think $45-$55/hr would be their charge out rate.

I'd estimate $50/hour for someone who's going to do a decent job. Also, double your time estimate. No matter what your actual estimate is, double it, and you'll get something closer to the actual time taken. You're also going to get hit by a pile of incidentals, you'll end up needing more galvanised bolts, washers, and plates than you expected, there's delivery costs for everything, also you need scoria to go behind the wall and drainage pipe(s) at the base, a sump if you're connecting it to existing drainage, possibly geogrid, there's a lot of extra cost there if you want it done properly.

chevrolux

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#1847230 15-Aug-2017 18:05

Ask Jonesy to give you hand. That'll save a few dollars!.. probably not a Saturday though.

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#1847231 15-Aug-2017 18:10

Coil:

kryptonjohn:

That can't be right. 30 man days for a 10m wall? Each of them can only put up .33 of 1.5m wall a day? It would be > $9,000 in labour alone for 10m of wall - $900/m just for the labour when common industry estimates are <= $500/m including material.

Unless there were particular site difficulties with design, access, slope or underground rock that is just insanely slow.

The code is no big deal - no permit or consent required, 150mm H5 rounds at least as deep as high at 1.2 centres and backed with 200x50 H4, with drain coil, sleeve and scoria back fill should do it.

It was a big job with a LOT of wheelbarrowing, They were wheelbarrowing concrete in for 2 days and dirt out for the first week.
Just tight around the side of a house as it was an older development of 3 houses on a slope and the slope started to give way. Imagine 3 town houses perched on a slope with 4m of slope between them.
All jobs vary so I was probably a bit silly to compare two things that are not similar.

DOesn't sound very efficient. These days you use a concrete truck and pump. ALso a digger and post hole borer is usually used. I suspect access may have been the problem in this case, which may have tripled or quadrupled the work involved.

nickb800

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#1847342 16-Aug-2017 06:56

$10-$15k seems to be market rate for this type of work - how that is made up I don't know

kryptonjohn

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#1847371 16-Aug-2017 08:48

Ropata:

Also, if you can get the 200 x 50 for 6 bucks I might start buying it off you, even with your margin on top.

Same price in Auckland - $5.90 incl.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/building-renovation/building-supplies/timber/other/auction-1394043433.htm

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#1847377 16-Aug-2017 09:00

neb:
gregmcc:

Compliance costs - building permits etc

$30/hr, I'm sure they charge way more than that, I would think $45-$55/hr would be their charge out rate.

I'd estimate $50/hour for someone who's going to do a decent job. Also, double your time estimate. No matter what your actual estimate is, double it, and you'll get something closer to the actual time taken. You're also going to get hit by a pile of incidentals, you'll end up needing more galvanised bolts, washers, and plates than you expected, there's delivery costs for everything, also you need scoria to go behind the wall and drainage pipe(s) at the base, a sump if you're connecting it to existing drainage, possibly geogrid, there's a lot of extra cost there if you want it done properly.

Yeah nah. I as posted above I've already been using building contractors (labourers, apprentices, hammer hands) in the $25/$30/$40 range and they've been awesome. Looking back at my invoices I can see the lead master builder was $70 and qualified builder $55 but those guys have the skills to build houses and would be poorly utilised building basic landscape retaining walls.

1.5m landscape retaining walls don't use bolts or washers or plates. They're just posts in the ground backed by timber (nailed).

Delivery costs are insignificant - the least of your worries! I recently had $4000 worth of decking delivered for $75.

Scoria and drainflow and filter already estimated above.

I can see why building costs are out of control in New Zealand - supply and demand are leading to contractors estimating high and getting away with it.

Ropata

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#1847389 16-Aug-2017 09:21

Surely you don't begrudge them putting a profit margin on top? That's what capitalism is all about. Why can't they make hay while the sun shines? God knows they feel the economic dips before anyone else. The free market competition dictates the cost.

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kryptonjohn

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#1847399 16-Aug-2017 09:52

Of course not as long as the margin is reasonable.

networkn

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#1847429 16-Aug-2017 10:52

3 pages this thread has been going on, pretty much everyone disagrees with your estimates saying you are going too low, but you keep insisting. Not really sure what you need from this point onward, but surely if you think it can be done so much cheaper, rebuff the quotes you have and manage yourself.

Either way, you will either save money, and be happy, or have spent the same amount as quoted or similar, and be no worse off.

Bung

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#1847441 16-Aug-2017 11:07

kryptonjohn:

The code is no big deal - no permit or consent required, 150mm H5 rounds at least as deep as high at 1.2 centres and backed with 200x50 H4, with drain coil, sleeve and scoria back fill should do it.

I may be overly cautious but if your 30m was in a straight line I'd be tempted to put more posts in. Mitre10 quote 150 @ 1200 centres but most other examples are 900-1000mm.

When my neighbour had his walls done on a hillside site they saved on labour with the drainage by using recycled porous blocks of polystyrene behind the planking rather than 100% metal.

kryptonjohn

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#1847459 16-Aug-2017 11:34

networkn:

3 pages this thread has been going on, pretty much everyone disagrees with your estimates saying you are going too low, but you keep insisting. Not really sure what you need from this point onward, but surely if you think it can be done so much cheaper, rebuff the quotes you have and manage yourself.

Either way, you will either save money, and be happy, or have spent the same amount as quoted or similar, and be no worse off.

I'm hoping for someone to come up with something other than rough assertions and only one poster has done so in the three pages - but that was an extremely difficult site so not very comparable. Was hoping at least some posters would have had personal experience of getting a simple landscape 1.5m retaining wall built, but no luck.

The only thing I am guessing is the labour hours as I already know the cost of material and labour rate.

But thanks for your contribution.

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