Tiny houses

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#1994622 12-Apr-2018 09:04

kryptonjohn:

Just screw fix to the metal.There's cladding on the outside so won't be visible.

That would seem to negate one of the advantages of container - a waterproof metal wall between interior and exterior cladding.

But if you screw holes in them they won't be any longer. The screws will be made of a different metal to the container and if water gets in there will be galvanic corrosion (probably of the screws).

Mike

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#1994642 12-Apr-2018 09:23

I agree, and hate the idea of making holes in any weather-tight surface. Use steel screws? If you drive steel screws into steel then there's no galvanic action. Otherwise would have thought the inside is dry and the outside is dry enough assuming the external cladding is reasonably waterproof and vented. It only has to last the life of the building so galvanic corrosion is only an issue if it occurs too fast.

Even boats in salt water inevitably end up mixing stainless steel and aluminium - a terrible galvanic combination, by sealing the joints and using anodes. It's managed in the worst possible environment - salt water.

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#1994672 12-Apr-2018 09:50

kryptonjohn:

Use steel screws? If you drive steel screws into steel then there's no galvanic action.

...

Even boats in salt water inevitably end up mixing stainless steel and aluminium - a terrible galvanic combination, by sealing the joints and using anodes. It's managed in the worst possible environment - salt water.

You can get galvanic reactions between different steels. For example mild steel screw on galv trailers. As you said as long as the area stayed dry, you would be fine.

These days on a boat you woudl put something like duralac or tefgel on your stainless fasteners - products that supposedly insulate the contact area between the metals. But you still use anodes. Another practice on boats is to have a bonding system that especially connect all metal components, so they have a common potential and no galvanic corrosion can occur.

Mike

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#1994680 12-Apr-2018 10:12

Friend of mine shares a 45' alloy fishing boat with his dad. It's an awesome boat with a great big single Cat donk and has a workboat finish rather than all shiny gelcoat so you don't have to fuss about dropping a sinker etc. But the window frames all corroded... that was a big repair/replace bill.

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#1994700 12-Apr-2018 11:13

kryptonjohn:

Friend of mine shares a 45' alloy fishing boat with his dad. It's an awesome boat with a great big single Cat donk and has a workboat finish rather than all shiny gelcoat so you don't have to fuss about dropping a sinker etc. But the window frames all corroded... that was a big repair/replace bill.

Windows often aren't marine alloy, being more reactive they can corrode galvanically. And/or if they are powder coated then the alloy doesn't get to develop that oxide layer to protect itself. If water gets under the powder coat/paint you get crevice corrosion.

My boat is alloy too - 31 years young and due for a repaint. Going to be a of a job.

Mike

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#1994812 12-Apr-2018 13:08

kryptonjohn:

I agree, and hate the idea of making holes in any weather-tight surface. Use steel screws? If you drive steel screws into steel then there's no galvanic action. Otherwise would have thought the inside is dry and the outside is dry enough assuming the external cladding is reasonably waterproof and vented. It only has to last the life of the building so galvanic corrosion is only an issue if it occurs too fast.

Even boats in salt water inevitably end up mixing stainless steel and aluminium - a terrible galvanic combination, by sealing the joints and using anodes. It's managed in the worst possible environment - salt water.

I'm collecting bits for a container based tiny batch in a coastal area, have already hoarded a couple of 40' Hi-cubes.
We've looked at a few older ocean-side container batches to get an idea of what to watch out for.

There was some weathering of dissimilar fittings, but a glaring issue was corrosion around through-fittings, along welds and the lower edges of the container roof and side corrugations.
Avoiding small holes and weather proofing - particularly over the container roof - seems to be the key if you're near the ocean.

Corten steel cuts easily and welds nicely, and they're so overbuilt that unless stacked or heavily loaded, you can safely cut out large chunks.
The lesson learned was to design using the strong - and relatively low cost - container(s) as a structural core inside a weather proof cladding.

To gain experience for my own project I recently helped with a friend's container home build.
We sized everything to suit the aluminium joinery he'd collected, and a lot of of the cut out panel was re-used and welded back on as flashings, flanges etc.

He's gasketting between the joinery and flanges to avoid galvanic corrosion. I reckon the moisture it traps will be more of an issue but we'll see..
Burned through a few $$ worth of gases, diesel, wire and spray-galv. Would have been nice to have mains power and a plasma cutter.

He's made a nifty jig to weld the internal battening's threaded studs - and is going to glue sheet insulation between them.
I'll be interested to revisit when it's lined.

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#1994816 12-Apr-2018 13:15

Sidestep:

He's made a nifty jig to weld the internal battening's threaded studs - and is going to glue sheet insulation between them.
I'll be interested to revisit when it's lined.

I;d like to understand that in more detail

Is he welding threaded rod to the inside wall and then counter sinking the nuts into the battens?

Mike

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#1994847 12-Apr-2018 13:23

MikeAqua:

Sidestep:

He's made a nifty jig to weld the internal battening's threaded studs - and is going to glue sheet insulation between them.
I'll be interested to revisit when it's lined.

I;d like to understand that in more detail

Is he welding threaded rod to the inside wall and then counter sinking the nuts into the battens?

Yes, small threaded steel studs (like a bolt, but instead of a hex head have a ribbed plate)
The wooden battens go over & a pressed metal 'nut' holds it on.

kryptonjohn

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#1994849 12-Apr-2018 13:29

I imagine it would be tricky to drill the holes in exactly the right place on the battens?

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#1994855 12-Apr-2018 13:41

kryptonjohn:

I imagine it would be tricky to drill the holes in exactly the right place on the battens?

The 2nd hand battening he scored (100's of M of it) already has holes. He's using a couple of lengths as jigs.

He got the studs from trademe I think.. some have surface rust, I buffed the weld on side clean on several hundred of them.

He puts one in every other hole and tacks them into place

TwoSeven

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#1995029 12-Apr-2018 18:57

mattwnz:

The thing is that it can be cheaper to do a new build in timber frame, than use shipping containers. Especially if you have to chop them up, and get structural engineers to make sure all the loadings are gong to be fine, as well as making sure it complies with the building code. That same house if it was in NZ, it would likely be at least double the US pricing.

This is my thinking as well. Structurally, a shipping container is designed to be stacked, so it is basically a rectangular frame with some cladding. Timber framing would be cheaper, and more flexible in the design and materials.

However, materials - texture, look and feel are important components in creative design, and a container offers an option if price is not the constraint. He can always combine the aesthetics of the two.

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#1995033 12-Apr-2018 19:16

I actually quite like it although I'm concerned as to how well they're insulated and whether the windows are double glazed. The great thing I like with this is that it starts a conversation and hopefully it'll mean smaller more efficient houses and more efficient use of land especially when it comes to big cities like Auckland. Maybe it is just me but I prefer a smaller home that is easy to keep tidy and warm especially during winter. As for the appearance, as long as it is done in a tasteful way and the owners keep it tidy with some plants etc. then I don't see anything wrong but then again I see a house as a place to live and not a magical piñata I break open when I hit 65 and use the left over cash to live off in my retirement.

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mattwnz

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#1995037 12-Apr-2018 19:21

I do worry if container houses (ones which aren't overclad), are as durable long term as a normal timber framed house. It is not as though you can reclad them easily, and cladding is essentially structural, so if it rusts, the structure is also potentially compromised. Someone built a large house using stacked containers on Grand designs a few years ago, and not sure it worked out all that well in terms of costs and ease of construction and detailing.

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#1995136 13-Apr-2018 07:04

I'm always skeptical about people wanting to make money ... yes they may be small and cute, but I am sure they will find ways to make them cost a lot more than they should.

Aredwood

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#1995155 13-Apr-2018 08:53

Batman:
I'm always skeptical about people wanting to make money ... yes they may be small and cute, but I am sure they will find ways to make them cost a lot more than they should.

If they are charging too much. Then someone will start another company and offer a similar product for cheaper.

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