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tweake
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  #2962464 2-Sep-2022 19:39
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timmmay:

 

If the air is all recirculating via a ducted heat pump it probably doesn't matter much which rooms it goes into directly, it will make its way around. 54% humidity is fine. My office where I am right now is 58% and it feels fine.

 

 

It does matter to a degree.

 

If the fresh air goes into the room closest to where the heatpump pickup is then its not to bad (mitsi diagram has it going direct into the heatpump). But if its another room its pretty poor as its no longer fresh air. eg if goes into the kitchen then goes to the heat pump pick up, its also going to take with it all the cooking smells, similar effect if its near the bathroom, bedrooms etc.

 

Also keep in mind the fresh air going in wants to go directly to where the air is going out (high pressure to low pressure). If those points are near each other a lot of the fresh air will simply bypass the house and go outside. In this case, a proportion of the fresh air will be doing that as the exhaust is tied into the heatpump pickup. Its going to the 2 rooms then to the heatpump inlet which is also the ventilation exhaust, so part of the fresh air flow will simply be exhausted outside. Not horrific but could be better. No doubt why mitsi diagram has the ventilation with separate exhaust.

 

 

 

 




33coupe

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  #2963540 5-Sep-2022 16:33
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tweake:

timmmay:


If the air is all recirculating via a ducted heat pump it probably doesn't matter much which rooms it goes into directly, it will make its way around. 54% humidity is fine. My office where I am right now is 58% and it feels fine.



It does matter to a degree.


If the fresh air goes into the room closest to where the heatpump pickup is then its not to bad (mitsi diagram has it going direct into the heatpump). But if its another room its pretty poor as its no longer fresh air. eg if goes into the kitchen then goes to the heat pump pick up, its also going to take with it all the cooking smells, similar effect if its near the bathroom, bedrooms etc.


Also keep in mind the fresh air going in wants to go directly to where the air is going out (high pressure to low pressure). If those points are near each other a lot of the fresh air will simply bypass the house and go outside. In this case, a proportion of the fresh air will be doing that as the exhaust is tied into the heatpump pickup. Its going to the 2 rooms then to the heatpump inlet which is also the ventilation exhaust, so part of the fresh air flow will simply be exhausted outside. Not horrific but could be better. No doubt why mitsi diagram has the ventilation with separate exhaust.


 


 



Thanks for the post, and yes definitely summer concerns with what you have said.

The fresh air is going into the lounge, dining, kitchen area, and there is a return on edge of kitchen by the hallway.

So I'm not best pleased with the setup, even if I'm now getting mid 40's humidity around 20-22 degrees.

I'll reply back explaining all of these points, I'm not impressed. I Didn't pay for a lossnay system just for it to go into a few rooms. If anything, I'd prefer it went just into bedrooms first.

tweake
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  #2963549 5-Sep-2022 16:59
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33coupe:

 

even if I'm now getting mid 40's humidity around 20-22 degrees.

 

whats your outdoor temp and humidity at the moment? its the comparison between indoor and outdoor that will tell a few things.




33coupe

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  #2963557 5-Sep-2022 17:26
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I've just put it outside for 15 mins and it's gone down to 8 degrees with 59% humidity (it has just started raining, it was 50% humidity before that)

tweake
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  #2963573 5-Sep-2022 18:09
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33coupe: I've just put it outside for 15 mins and it's gone down to 8 degrees with 59% humidity (it has just started raining, it was 50% humidity before that)

 

that sounds very much like an ERV. its actually damper inside than outside (not necessarily a bad thing). if its was an HRV i would expect somewhere around 20% humidity inside. Your probably in a dry enough area that you might just get away without a dehumidifier. However that will need monitoring. 

 

But if your inside temp goes down below (roughly) 10c thats a problem (80% humidity), and below 6c its a major problem (dew point/condensation). 


33coupe

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  #2973404 27-Sep-2022 12:21
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Sorry I haven't replied, I've been waiting to hear back from the installer, nothing so far ....

I'm unsure on what I should do next. I'm contemplating asking them to install it properly or ask for my money back.

What would everyone else do in similar situation?

 
 
 

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tweake
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  #2973461 27-Sep-2022 12:54
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33coupe: Sorry I haven't replied, I've been waiting to hear back from the installer, nothing so far ....

I'm unsure on what I should do next. I'm contemplating asking them to install it properly or ask for my money back.

What would everyone else do in similar situation?

 

imho the building industry tends to operate as "all care but no responsibility". I would be surprised if you hear back at all, and if he does he will probably talk crap until you give up. Usually the old "i'm the pro i say its good not you". Your not going to get your money back, it will cost you more than you would get. Odds of them coming and fixing it is remote and runs the risk of it being done badly.

 

I would just fix it to your liking. 

 

 


33coupe

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  #2976736 3-Oct-2022 12:12
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Thanks for the reply, and yep I'll be expecting to be ignored / told it's working fine. But I won't give up, I've paid for ducted heatpump and fresh air system, was not told it wasn't setup as intended

I have just done a Google search on the lossnay model andit's an erv system with a paper core (didn't realise mitsi lossnay had different types)


tweake
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  #2976890 3-Oct-2022 18:04
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i would have to have another look through the thread but from what i remember i think the fix is pretty simple with out to many new parts. 


33coupe

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  #2977774 5-Oct-2022 14:30
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The installer has replied with the following:

It does look like all we need to do is change the duct run going into the return air to the supply air.

I'm not sure about that, the fresh air in needs to go into the heatpump.
I'll see what they come up with though

tweake
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  #2977827 5-Oct-2022 17:22
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33coupe: The installer has replied with the following:

It does look like all we need to do is change the duct run going into the return air to the supply air.

I'm not sure about that, the fresh air in needs to go into the heatpump.
I'll see what they come up with though

 

i suspect thats overly simplified. 

 

to me i would move the ventilation heat pump connection point (the point where the fresh air goes into the heat pump duct work currently), to the intake side of the heat pump. basically as per mitsi diagram. (you would need a joiner to patch the old ducts back together) however as the ventilation exhaust also comes from the intake side of the heat pump (same duct), i would fit one way dampers inbetween those connections (ie fit one ways on both heat pump inlets). otherwise if the heat pump is off the ventilation air will simply get vented straight back out side.

 

downside is how well the ventilation air is distributed will depend on the mixing and balancing inside the heat pump exhaust connection area. the best possible method is to split the ventilation and feed both heat pump inlets. that would give best mixing and distribution, but comes at more cost and complexity. 

 

 


 
 
 
 

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tweake
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  #2977834 5-Oct-2022 18:05
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to add, 

 

if you only do a single fresh air connection to the heat pump, put it on the other inlet. ie not the one with the existing fresh air outlet connection. this will cause a slight difference in pressure on the heat pump inlets and help with mixing of the two inlet air flows. 

 

also i would put the bed room outlet ducts on the side of the heat pump you have the fresh air inlet. so if the air doesn't mix well the fresh air will favor the bedroom ducts. ie if the fresh air goes to the right hand heat pump inlet, have the bedroom ducts on the right hand outlet (and middle).


33coupe

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  #2990518 1-Nov-2022 10:55
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Just a quick update, the installer came around and 'fixed'the problem.

From what they said, and what I can see, is that the lossnay is now going to every room in the house.

I'm still waiting for my temp/humidity sensors (I have one) to come from AE to get better idea of what's going on in the rooms.

Pics attached. It seems that one ducting pipe didn't get fully tapped up, I'll double check with installer if correct or not.

The whole system isn't perfect as different to how lossnay was intended, but better than it was.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/enbuX9LLwL78FR6a6

Hopefully that's the last of it.
Thanks everyone, really appreciate all the help on here

tweake
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  #2990705 1-Nov-2022 17:22
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😱 🤬 

 

 


tweake
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  #2990721 1-Nov-2022 19:20
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i've seen that method before. imho its an expensive poor performing fix.

 

the one i've seen is to join the two systems at the grill. that way your using the length of the heating system duct as a restriction so most airflow will go out the grill and not up the duct. trouble is its only most not all. fitting it half way down makes it a bit worse.

 

what you will get is a bit of ventilation air coming back trough the heating system and even going straight to the ventilation exhaust (assuming it still tied to the return). how much is the question. when the heating is on the fans will compete with each other and reducing ventilation flows. again how much is the question.

 

this is why when doing parallel systems its better to keep them completely separate.

 

it would have been a whole lot cheaper to set it up as per mitsi's layout. 


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