Battery powered tool systems

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Awrrr
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#3102031 10-Jul-2023 11:11

I look forward to right of repair legislation being introduced in this country, followed by coercive sanctions. In case anyone hadn't noticed, our free enterprise economy is killing the planet. Of course not everything can be economically repaired, but the current appalling levels of waste can certainly be greatly improved. The throw away society is drowning in its own excrement.

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johno1234

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#3102034 10-Jul-2023 11:20

Rikkitic:

I look forward to right of repair legislation being introduced in this country, followed by coercive sanctions. In case anyone hadn't noticed, our free enterprise economy is killing the planet. Of course not everything can be economically repaired, but the current appalling levels of waste can certainly be greatly improved. The throw away society is drowning in its own excrement.

As much as I like the aim of this, Such restrictive legislation ultimately makes NZ an expensive place to operate. Other countries being cheaper and more financially efficient and hence having more cash will inevitably move ahead of us in areas such as export competitiveness, social services, health and education, meaning a slow decline into 3rd world status for us.

We live in an open connected world, and we cannot exist without comparing ourselves to and competing with other economies. If we want to have nice things, we have to be economically competitive. Yet we also want to have a nice clean natural planet that is fit to live in. It is an inescapable, unsolvable paradox of the world we live in. Worse, it is all subject to the whims of larger countries over which we have zero influence.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#3102054 10-Jul-2023 11:48

johno1234:

As much as I like the aim of this, Such restrictive legislation ultimately makes NZ an expensive place to operate. Other countries being cheaper and more financially efficient and hence having more cash will inevitably move ahead of us in areas such as export competitiveness, social services, health and education, meaning a slow decline into 3rd world status for us.

This argument keeps getting trotted out as an excuse to do nothing. It is also why no meaningful change is occurring as the climate continues to heat up and we are devastated by flooding from storms and continuous torrential rainfall.

Of course this is a global issue and we can't fix it alone, but we are already lagging behind other countries that are taking measures to reduce waste, including right of repair.

The solution is not just to establish a repair infrastructure. It requires a change in mentality so (for example) bottles come with deposits again and supermarkets are forced to accept them, just like they do in other parts of the world (somehow without going bankrupt in the process!). Manufacturing processes need to be changed so electronic components like chips and capacitors can easily be diagnosed and swapped out. If things are made differently, repairing them in most cases does not have to be difficult or expensive. It just takes a little will and imagination.

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larknz

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#3102070 10-Jul-2023 12:34

Nothing will change while purchasers keep looking for the lowest price. This is the reason we no longer have our own manufacturing.

gbwelly

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#3102200 10-Jul-2023 14:57

Rikkitic:

The throw away society is drowning in its own excrement.

Totally agree. To the point I bought a battery tab spot welder and repack all the things now. This was driven by my refusal to throw away 6 'green coloured era' Ozito power tools for which replacement batteries are no longer available.

MikeAqua

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#3102207 10-Jul-2023 15:25

Rikkitic:

I look forward to right of repair legislation being introduced in this country, followed by coercive sanctions. In case anyone hadn't noticed, our free enterprise economy is killing the planet. Of course not everything can be economically repaired, but the current appalling levels of waste can certainly be greatly improved. The throw away society is drowning in its own excrement.

There is a CGA obligation to stock parts - maybe needs more sanctions and an obligation to supply parts. Provided you don't want to keep your warranty, and subject to some safety restrictions (gas, electricity, pressure etc) ... you can repair your stuff. I do that quite often. I have destroyed a few thing trying though!

For example, I've rebuilt a motorcycle engine that lost it's oil, fixed an AV receiver, fixed a power tool battery pack, a couple of bits of whiteware and numerous car repairs.

I'm currently repurposing a broken dyson vacuum cleaner into a dust extractor.

Mike

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Bung

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#3102316 10-Jul-2023 16:43

MikeAqua:
There is a CGA obligation to stock parts - maybe needs more sanctions and an obligation to supply parts.

The problem for a DIYer is a reasonable quality tool can last longer than the obligation to supply parts in NZ. Some parts may be available elsewhere but you're on your own. Anyone expecting electronic component level repair on brushless tools is dreaming. For DIY there is a lot of good corded equipment sitting around unused. That's what I look out for.

sir1963

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#3102453 10-Jul-2023 21:40

Rikkitic:

I look forward to right of repair legislation being introduced in this country, followed by coercive sanctions. In case anyone hadn't noticed, our free enterprise economy is killing the planet. Of course not everything can be economically repaired, but the current appalling levels of waste can certainly be greatly improved. The throw away society is drowning in its own excrement.

ALL goods should be sold for a price that includes a recycling tax +life expectancy tax

Throw away junk you tax higher

Repairable stuff you tax lower

That tax is collected and then used to fund recycling, metal recovery, plastics disposal, etc etc etc. The more expensive it is to recycle the higher the tax.

ALL battery equipment (laptops/phones/tablets) etc get taxed according to how hard it is to replace them.... glue the housing shut and the battery in (Apple !) then you either pay a premium tax OR the battery also gets a minimum 5 year warranty.

All electronics has a 5 years warranty, we keep getting told how reliable it is, well back them words up with a realistic warranty. There is zero need to have electronics devices being a fashion item.

My F&P chest freezer is coming up 40 years old.

Longevity and ease of repair are ALL design decisions, so push them with $$ to make better choices.

sir1963

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#3102454 10-Jul-2023 21:46

Bung:
MikeAqua:

There is a CGA obligation to stock parts - maybe needs more sanctions and an obligation to supply parts.

The problem for a DIYer is a reasonable quality tool can last longer than the obligation to supply parts in NZ. Some parts may be available elsewhere but you're on your own. Anyone expecting electronic component level repair on brushless tools is dreaming. For DIY there is a lot of good corded equipment sitting around unused. That's what I look out for.

ONLY because of planed obsolescence , you can make updated spares, new stuff having backwards compatibility etc.

These companies make more money through a throw away society on products they do not need to actually support.

THAT has to change.

Good example is battery powered tools, they ALL have their own proprietary connector etc that is copyright/patent protected to stop 3rd party supplies, and the $$ made on the batteries is where the money actually is.

Bung

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#3102478 10-Jul-2023 23:59

sir1963:
My F&P chest freezer is coming up 40 years old.

Have you measured how much power it uses? F&P claim a 20 year old F&P chest freezer uses $200 more power per year than a current model.

Hammerer

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#3102481 11-Jul-2023 00:36

FlyingPete:

angski:

Nowadays, with battery adaptors, you can use Dewalt battery on Makita bare tools or Milwaukee tools. As long as there is an adaptor, you can buy any bare skin tool.

If you stick with Dewalt or Makita battery, you literally can use tools from both camps. All you need is a battery adaptor. I have a Metabo battery and with Milwaukee adaptor, I can use all Milwaukee tools.

Would be interesting to see which battery system is most cost effective, I was on the Bunnings site last night and noticed the Ozito stuff is considerably cheaper than Ryobi.

Ryobi batteries would be a bad idea to use for everything due to their sticky out bit, looks like they are the only one that still does that.

Battery performance comparisons show significant differences. In general, battery prices seem to be a better indicator of their performance than is the case when comparing tool prices. Ozito batteries generally perform worse than Ryobi but the unit price, e.g. per Wh, is better because they can be a lot cheaper. I have both and Ryobi batteries are way better.

The Ryobi battery post, “sticky out bit“, does take up more space but it represents their commitment to not change their 18V battery connection system. It must be inconvenient for Ryobi to have a connector that doesn’t allow useful adaption to other makers’ tools but does allow easy adaption of other makers’ batteries for Ryobi tools.

The Ryobi post does make some things easier like getting them into the charger/tool in low light.

By the way, how did the topic change from comparing battery-powered tool lines to diatribes about repair vs replace and talk of home appliances?

Good practice is to learn how to make tools and batteries last by looking after them so repair/replace scenarios are avoided. So do not to do full-cycle discharges unless you’re using Nicad batteries. Prefer slow rates of charge or discharge. Use higher battery capacities for activities requiring higher discharge rates. Get batteries with in-built meters so you can check how much charge remains - I aim to leave 25% but I’ve seen 50% recommended.

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larknz

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#3102484 11-Jul-2023 07:12

By the way, how did the topic change from comparing battery-powered tool lines to diatribes about repair vs replace and talk of home appliances?

Natural evolution

Handle9

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#3102485 11-Jul-2023 07:20

Hammerer:
By the way, how did the topic change from comparing battery-powered tool lines to diatribes about repair vs replace and talk of home appliances?

Have you not read @rikkitic posts before?

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#3102487 11-Jul-2023 07:43

The discussion is about the comparative qualities of different battery tool systems. I pointed out that Ryobi tools cannot be repaired as a matter of policy. This is a legitimate point to raise in light of contemporary concerns about environmental impact. The rest, as someone pointed out, was natural evolution.

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sir1963

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#3102750 11-Jul-2023 14:47

Bung:
sir1963:

My F&P chest freezer is coming up 40 years old.

Have you measured how much power it uses? F&P claim a 20 year old F&P chest freezer uses $200 more power per year than a current model.

So...it will take 5+ years of electricity savings to replace the freezer +charge for degassing the old one + recycling costs.... should almost pay for its self by the time it needs to be replaced .

Better insulation has only made the walls thinner, so I am not sure how much extra benefit there is.

Chest freezers are all more efficient that vertical freezers, all the cold air does not fall out when you open the door.

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