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#2843094 4-Jan-2022 15:03

eracode:

@Senecio Just saw your post again - interested to know how it’s going.

@eracode. Funny you should ask. I dropped into this thread yesterday and though I should post an update.

Progress has been slow. Primarily due to high demand for the conversion kits as a result of many European cities banning 2-stroke scooters due to emissions, and COVID shipping lead times. The bulk of the kit only arrived the week before Christmas, I'm still waiting on the battery and charger as they were sent by sea freight.

This is how it currently stands.

I have installed the swing arm, hub motor assembly using all of the original mounting hardware and rear shock. A little persuasion was required as I'm not sure factory tolerances in Italy in the 60's was that high meaning quite a bit of variation from scooter to scooter. And while my scoot looks to be quite original, I'm sure its had some panel work in its 56 year history.

The control box is also installed behind that engine cover. The control box houses the motor controller and e-throttle as well as the DC-DC converter to step down the 64V battery voltage to 12V to run the lights and horn etc...

The next jobs are to route the wiring loom through the frame, its about as simple as wiring looms can get, and to rebuild the head-set / steering assembly. My local scooter shop as ordered some parts that are due in this weekend so I can freshen up the front end (upper and lower steering bearings, new speedo cable and front brake cable). Once that is all done it will be all ready to go, just waiting on the battery to power it.

In good news this week, when I got the scooter last year I could not find the original speedo in the various boxes of bits that came with it. While rummaging around yesterday I found it, and while sourcing a replacement wouldn't have been to difficult or costly I think having the original just sets off the resto-mod them well.

eracode

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#2843096 4-Jan-2022 15:19

@Senecio Really like this - very cool. Thanks. Original speedo is brilliant.

Given that it’s now an e-scooter, does it need WOF, rego etc?

You didn’t mention a kit anywhere - is it a one-off and are these conversions common?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Senecio

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#2843105 4-Jan-2022 15:54

I decided to go with this kit from Retrospective Scooters in the UK. I had done all the research to source the parts and build everything myself but in the end there were two things that steered me towards the kit.

1. The swing arm. I don't have the skills or equipment to engineer and fabricate the swing arm and working with a local engineering firm to build something wasn't appealing. Just look at the photos in the link below to see what has gone into their swing arm.

2. The battery. Lithium batteries cells are so expensive in NZ and when you need 200 of them to build a 28Ah 64V battery it gets really expensive. I had a quote from a local company to build a battery that was over $4,000 NZD

https://www.retrospectivescooters.com/product/small-frame-vespa-conversion-kit

The kits are becoming very popular in Europe, as I said, many people are using them to keep their classic scooters on the road with all the emissions actions coming into force. I know of only 1 other kit in NZ and I've been in contact with the guy who built it. He's been very helpful in pointing me in the right direction specifically with certification.

I still have to pay the yearly license but as it is a moped and pre 1980 its only $40/yr. No WOF required as it is classed as a moped and not a motorcycle. That also means you don't need a motorcycle license to ride it. I'm working a local certifying engineer and it will still be certified as a moped when it is finished. We've had to make some modifications to the base kit (restriction to 50km/h, and wiring in a kill switch) but I want to make sure its all legal and certified.

mdf

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#2844343 6-Jan-2022 14:45

eracode:

k1w1k1d:

Will you be using epoxy between the boards or waterproof PVA glue?

Good question - have thought about both but not decided. Was thinking of this - sounds good but haven’t used it before. Open to suggestion.

At one point the intention was to use no adhesive on the table top - just pull up tight on the threaded rods. The perimeter would be removable and then we could access the nuts on the rods to further tighten them if needed. Now think we will glue.

I build an outdoor table a couple of years ago (see https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=116854&page_no=33#2410750 or page 33 of this thread).

I used liquid nails (i.e. polyurethane construction adhesive) on some of the joins (the ones I thought would be higher stress) and Aquadhere external PVA for the rest. A couple of years on and some extreme sun, rain, salt and wind: the PVA has done *much* better than the polyurethane. Quite of few of the polyurethane joins have opened; I ended up filling these with black silicone which looks okay but I am still a bit annoyed.

My table top is tongue and groove (so an integrated rather than floating tenon) that is PVAed together and has done fine. The glue joins are actually stronger than the wood; there is some small cupping and cracking in the boards but the joins themselves are really solid.

Stumpy Nubs has a brand spanking new video on woodworking glues (which reminded me I needed to respond to this post); he's not a fan of polyurethane glue either.

eracode

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#2844725 7-Jan-2022 08:48

@mdf Great video - many thanks for that - very helpful. After hearing about Gorilla above in this thread, I had thought we would use that. Then I saw some videos that showed that it is not easy to use - so I was thinking of exterior-grade PVA.

The guy in your video confirms what I have seen elsewhere about Gorilla. Based on what he says and on your direct experience, I will avoid Gorilla and would really like to use the Titebond III PVA product he describes. It seems that Mitre 10 have it - maybe in fairly small bottles but that doesn't worry me.

Really love your table - great style. On our table project I am providing much of the physical expertise but didn't have any input on overall design.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

mdf

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#2844727 7-Jan-2022 09:00

👍

Titebond III does need to be used carefully since it can stain the wood black. It's also spendy. But from what I understand, is a superb glue. As I say, I had good luck with aquadhere.

eracode

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#2844729 7-Jan-2022 09:03

mdf: 👍

Titebond III does need to be used carefully since it can stain the wood black. It's also spendy. But from what I understand, is a superb glue. As I say, I had good luck with aquadhere.

Hmm - don't like that sound of black - thanks for that. May go with Aquadhere.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

richms

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#2844857 7-Jan-2022 15:14

I was recommended this - https://www.bunnings.co.nz/selleys-aquadhere-460ml-durabond_p0712356 to stick some outdoor furniture back together. It was somewhat messy and oozed out of the holes like they say gorilla does. But damn does it stick well.

Also the bottle went off super quickly into a hard lump once opened unlike PVA that will sit basically forever on the shelf ok.

Richard rich.ms

neb

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#2844890 7-Jan-2022 16:48

mdf: Titebond III does need to be used carefully since it can stain the wood black. It's also spendy. But from what I understand, is a superb glue. As I say, I had good luck with aquadhere.

Hmm, never heard of, or experienced, Titebond III staining wood, it just dries a bit yellow. Are you sure it wasn't something else that caused it?

Have you had the Aquadhere get wet? I ran some tests a while back, I think I posted photos here, and the Aquadhere simply dissolves when it gets wet just like regular PVA. Either I got a batch they accidentally filled into the wrong containers or it's just regular PVA sold as crosslinking PVA.

Ge0rge

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#2844895 7-Jan-2022 16:58

@eracode - as promised. Apologies for the picture-heavy post, but it wouldn't be the same without them!

I was allowed to turn a small portion of a shed here into my server room, so decided I wanted a really different door.

Started with six 150 x 50 rough sawn pieces of Mac that I dressed two sides on and laminated together. I used external grade PVA off the shelf from Mitre 10, no dowels or anything else.

I made up a steel frame to go around the door itself, as well as some straps across to give it the "medieval" look I was trying for.

The lock-side piece of steel has two recesses machined into it to allow the locks to fit flush:

Due to logistical issues (aka it's really heavy, how am I going to move it?!) the door frame itself was welded up in situ:

Lastly, I made up a handle that is not necessarily in keeping with the rest of the design, but I think is really neat. You can see a couple of the cracks that have developed in the timber over the past couple of years, but none of them are on the glue joints. Basically it's a heck of a lot warmer and drier where the door was installed than where the timber was when it was drying. The steel frame is a big help though, the door hasn't warped or racked at all, and the timber can't cup due to the steel bracing running across it - those are M16 bolts, and there are corresponding straps on the other side which essentially "clamp" the door square.

Lastly, the finished product - I'm pretty chuffed with it!

neb

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#2844975 7-Jan-2022 18:10

eracode:
The table will be outside in rain then blistering sun and the individual boards will be very tempted to move in various directions.

That was one concern when I saw the discussion of gluing, depending on which bits you're thinking of gluing you may want to not glue some parts in order to give the wood room to expand and contract. If it's locked solidly in place with glue then the stress caused by expansion and contraction will have to find some other way out.

Gurezaemon

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#2844977 7-Jan-2022 18:15

Ge0rge:

@eracode - as promised. Apologies for the picture-heavy post, but it wouldn't be the same without them!

Massive respect - that door is a beauty.

Get your business seen overseas - Nexus Translations

mdf

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#2845029 7-Jan-2022 21:29

neb:
mdf: Titebond III does need to be used carefully since it can stain the wood black. It's also spendy. But from what I understand, is a superb glue. As I say, I had good luck with aquadhere.

Hmm, never heard of, or experienced, Titebond III staining wood, it just dries a bit yellow. Are you sure it wasn't something else that caused it?

Have you had the Aquadhere get wet? I ran some tests a while back, I think I posted photos here, and the Aquadhere simply dissolves when it gets wet just like regular PVA. Either I got a batch they accidentally filled into the wrong containers or it's just regular PVA sold as crosslinking PVA.

I think I came across this on Lumberjocks and have been too scared to try it on anything so don't have first hand experience. Consensus seems to be some kind of reaction to either wood tannins or in some cases, iron contamination or reaction to clamps. See e.g. https://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/23100

Steve @ WWMM has had the same experience.

My table has spent two years out in the wind and rain and Aquadhere PVA glue is holding well. Certainly weatherproof at least.

neb

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#2845036 7-Jan-2022 22:01

Interesting.

Realised my question was phrased ambiguously, what I was trying to say was "the glue interacting with something else" that caused the blackening, i.e. some contaminant in/on the wood that reacted with the glue. The peanut gallery seems to think its clamps touching the glued surface. The Lumberjocks link you posted also indicates it oxidises iron (the blackening of the iron where glue has dripped onto it), so presumably something in it that makes it waterproof also interacts with iron clamps.

Jase2985

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#2845038 7-Jan-2022 22:20

The blackening could be the tannin's from the wood. I left some redwood sawdust on the drive overnight and it got wet and when i went to clean it up there were black stains where it had been sitting. Could be the same for macrocarpa

Somewhat related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-g3efGa3sI

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