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mattwnz
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  #2737987 2-Jul-2021 15:39
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mudguard:

 

Handsomedan:

 

I live on the North Shore. I see a LOT of vacant land that could be built on. Albany Mall is surrounded by vacant land just begging to be built on - high density housing next to a mall and a bus station? perfect! It's probably all zoned industrial or some such, but there's definitely plenty of land. 

 

 

Problem is it would be sold at $750,000 per section I imagine!

 

 

 

 

And that crazy price is largely driven by a lack of supply, land banking, and councils not rezoning more land residential, largely because of the infrastructure needed. It has cause land prices in my town to double since covid. It all seems to be very closely controlled, and land is drop fed onto the market to keep supply low.  IMO land bankers should be taxed on undeveloped land to . I am not sure if the RMA reforms are going to help with this. But much of the houses price prices is the rise in the land value, and not the actual building itself as much.

 

Also many NZers simply don't want to live in some of these horrible mass high density housing developments. I doubt too many of these developers are living in these houses, or would do so out of choice. NZ does not do it well. It is why we get urban sprawl, because many people want a small garden to grow things and a small lawn to get some UV each day.  Isn't that one of the advantages of living in NZ? But then that comes down to what population do we want NZ to have, and even the government doesn't seem to have a plan on this and is consulting.

 

But if the world are looking at reducing pollution etc, we need to probably look at capping the NZ population and growth, so we can be sustainable. Surely that should be part of the environmental emergency the government declared, and housing is a big part of this




mattwnz
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  #2737995 2-Jul-2021 15:46
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Handsomedan:

 

tdgeek:

 

Unless there is some way to have large scale developments that don't end up like UK slums.

 

 

Having lived for a couple of years in a large-scale South London Council Estate, I can categorically state that we want to avoid this happening in New Zealand as much as possible. 

 

The low-rise sprawling blocks like ours were just as bad as the high rise tower blocks. You just had better access to your flat than having to run the gauntlet of thuggery and druggery. 

 

I don't know what the answer is, either. But it can't be turning NZ cities into the equivalent of UK cities. 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Spelling and incomplete sentence

 

 

 

 

But don't the changes some NZ city councils are making going to allow more of that sort of thing? I think the UK are demolishing a lot of them, but they are often built with large open spaces between them. The UK does also tend to have allotments for people to grow produce etc,. I am not sure if there is allocated space ion Auckland for them to setup allotments. It looks like any usage space is going to be built on.

 

Unfortunately I think NZ cities are going to lose a lot of their heritage based on knee jerk decisions, which is often the urban fabric that makes the city special. Many of these new developments are eyesores IMO, and can be developer driven to maximise profits. Obviously there will be some good ones too, but they may not make as much profit. That is why there need to be design guidelines and integrate the heritage and existing scale.


tdgeek
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  #2738270 3-Jul-2021 08:06
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/125633099/councils-battling-to-recruit-staff-to-offset-unprecedented-building-surge

 

Looks like nationwide, people are turning to building to avoid the bidding war for existing houses. Maybe its time for a Regulatory intervention to reduce some red tape, but due to covid there is still material supply issues, but overall, its trending forward for once, building wise.




Batman
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  #2738450 3-Jul-2021 15:41
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https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/39727

 

not sure if that's what people wanted to read ...


Fred99
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  #2738469 3-Jul-2021 15:54
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https://asiatimes.com/2021/06/now-its-home-price-hyperinflation/

 

It's not just NZ.

 

(Possibly exacerbated here because of a few related factors, we're stuck with low global interest rates introduced where rolling lockdowns were really killing the economy in the largest nations, and the although net immigration wasn't historically high, people leaving were probably a normal outflow of longer term tourists, temporary workers etc, those people weren't coming in, and those that were coming in probably included many NZers returning long-term and looking for homes.  Post 9/11 and GFC, "kiwis came home" was a trend.)

 

What happens next? (I have no idea - and I don't think anybody else does either).

 

 


mattwnz
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  #2738507 3-Jul-2021 18:16
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tdgeek:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/125633099/councils-battling-to-recruit-staff-to-offset-unprecedented-building-surge

 

Looks like nationwide, people are turning to building to avoid the bidding war for existing houses. Maybe its time for a Regulatory intervention to reduce some red tape, but due to covid there is still material supply issues, but overall, its trending forward for once, building wise.

 

 

 

 

Many of these will be building companies and many will be spec houses. Likely all cashing in. But what happens when the cheap money stops, and or demand stops? Someones going to be left holding baby. Houses in bad times can be very difficult to sell. It also doesn't seem anyone want to sell a house for less than these estimate websites quote online, even though someone maybe willing to pay  well above the the 2020 RV, and they would have likley made a huge capital gain.


tdgeek
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  #2738596 4-Jul-2021 08:11
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Batman:

 

https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/39727

 

not sure if that's what people wanted to read ...

 

 

Can't see the problem here

 

The vendor had bought it in August 2020 for just over $4m, and while they did nothing to improve the house itself they got resource consent to build seven townhouses on the 1088sqm site and had sorted drainage.

 

And even if the property was bought and sat on, it rose in price, like every other house no matter who was living in it.


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2738597 4-Jul-2021 08:15
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mattwnz:

 

Many of these will be building companies and many will be spec houses. Likely all cashing in. But what happens when the cheap money stops, and or demand stops? Someones going to be left holding baby. Houses in bad times can be very difficult to sell. It also doesn't seem anyone want to sell a house for less than these estimate websites quote online, even though someone maybe willing to pay  well above the the 2020 RV, and they would have likley made a huge capital gain.

 

 

Where does it state that many are building companies or spec homes? Thats an assumption. Even if it was, its adding to housing stocks which is the only solution available. Id suggest its many individuals, who are tired of rising prices as they look for a home, but they can sign up a build today and the price is fixed. Rather than eventually find a home months later and the price has risen.


robbyp
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  #2738701 4-Jul-2021 16:56

tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

Many of these will be building companies and many will be spec houses. Likely all cashing in. But what happens when the cheap money stops, and or demand stops? Someones going to be left holding baby. Houses in bad times can be very difficult to sell. It also doesn't seem anyone want to sell a house for less than these estimate websites quote online, even though someone maybe willing to pay  well above the the 2020 RV, and they would have likley made a huge capital gain.

 

 

Where does it state that many are building companies or spec homes? Thats an assumption. Even if it was, its adding to housing stocks which is the only solution available. Id suggest its many individuals, who are tired of rising prices as they look for a home, but they can sign up a build today and the price is fixed. Rather than eventually find a home months later and the price has risen.

 

 

 

 

Based on new houses in my own town. There is a mix. You also have the governments own department building houses in areas.   But often it is building companies buying up the land, then they will either build and sell that . Often the builder may move in for a few months  then decide to sell as it can make it easier to dress it, or it is sold before or after completion. These days they they can also make more more profit just holding the land and land baking it for a year or two,  and then selling it for double as has occurred recently.

 

You say the price is fixed, but I would read the terms of the contract on that. I have seen some houses for sale that quotes a starting price, but in the fine print, it says the house and land package final price depends on what the land price is when the titles eventually come through.


antonknee
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  #2738702 4-Jul-2021 16:58
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tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

Many of these will be building companies and many will be spec houses. Likely all cashing in. But what happens when the cheap money stops, and or demand stops? Someones going to be left holding baby. Houses in bad times can be very difficult to sell. It also doesn't seem anyone want to sell a house for less than these estimate websites quote online, even though someone maybe willing to pay  well above the the 2020 RV, and they would have likley made a huge capital gain.

 

 

Where does it state that many are building companies or spec homes? Thats an assumption. Even if it was, its adding to housing stocks which is the only solution available. Id suggest its many individuals, who are tired of rising prices as they look for a home, but they can sign up a build today and the price is fixed. Rather than eventually find a home months later and the price has risen.

 

 

Where does it state that many are individuals? That’s an assumption (on your part). 

 

Of course a significant portion are going to be building companies and spec homes. I can think of 10 developments within 10 minutes walk that are building companies developing spec homes. But that’s not a bad thing - as you rightly point out, it’s adding to the stock. 


tdgeek
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  #2738703 4-Jul-2021 17:02
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robbyp:

 

 

 

Based on new houses in my own town. There is a mix. You also have the governments own department building houses in areas.   But often it is building companies buying up the land, then they will either build and sell that . Often the builder may move in for a few months  then decide to sell as it can make it easier to dress it, or it is sold before or after completion. These days they they can also make more more profit just holding the land and land baking it for a year or two,  and then selling it for double as has occurred recently.

 

You say the price is fixed, but I would read the terms of the contract on that. I have seen some houses for sale that quotes a starting price, but in the fine print, it says the house and land package final price depends on what the land price is when the titles eventually come through.

 

 

So if I see a sign, housing packages at $525,000, do I sign up and say thats cool 525 or 565 0r 599 thats ok wth me?


tdgeek
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  #2738705 4-Jul-2021 17:12
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antonknee:

 

Where does it state that many are individuals? That’s an assumption (on your part). 

 

Of course a significant portion are going to be building companies and spec homes. I can think of 10 developments within 10 minutes walk that are building companies developing spec homes. But that’s not a bad thing - as you rightly point out, it’s adding to the stock. 

 

 

I didn't make any assumptions. I did suggest that many may be individuals. That was my suggestion only. But we agree, if builders want to build big as its a boom, good on them. We had that here in ChCh. Its market or greed driven, doesn't matter, they got built. Extra houses with no occupants, that is actually awesome. Im no expert but ChCh house prices are better than elsewhere, thats probably a reasonable correlation. Maybe a Govt can force buy many many hectares in AKL and elsewhere, suffer the indignation of the occupants, then release multiple subdivisions?

 

Then again I read articles that say we are taking market gardeners land. I get that, coming from a farming upbringing, but urban sprawl is urban sprawl, rural neds also to move further away. OR we decide to set NZ population at 5.1 million, aim to house that, and ban immigrants. Thats not a facetious comment, but it asks the question, do we want more people here or not? Id suggest we do, for economies of scale. Many products we import than manufacture as our economy is too small. Thats another question.


kingdragonfly

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  #2738735 4-Jul-2021 19:09
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As a bit of background I have a 2.75% fixed rate loan from BNZ, fixed for 3 years. It has 2.5 years to run.

I had a strange experience when I logged into my BNZ bank site, and looked at my mortgage.

For the first time ever, I was offered to increase my payment amount, without any fee, which I did by $100/month. Moreover it look like I can keep raising my payment again, without any fees.

It's like they want me to pay off the loan quicker, to get it off their books.

I guess bank fees only happen when the bank is at a break-even / disadvantage, and disappear when you're at a advantage.

Handle9
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  #2738987 5-Jul-2021 07:05
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Handsomedan:

tdgeek:


Unless there is some way to have large scale developments that don't end up like UK slums.



Having lived for a couple of years in a large-scale South London Council Estate, I can categorically state that we want to avoid this happening in New Zealand as much as possible. 


The low-rise sprawling blocks like ours were just as bad as the high rise tower blocks. You just had better access to your flat than having to run the gauntlet of thuggery and druggery. 


I don't know what the answer is, either. But it can't be turning NZ cities into the equivalent of UK cities. 


 


 


EDIT: Spelling and incomplete sentence



Apartments don't have to be slums. Apartments in Europe, the US and Asia are often lovely buildings surrounded by amenities.

There are definitely slums but if you want affordable housing that supports high quality public transport then it's a great way to get there.


Historically apartments in NZ have been poorly built shoe boxes whic has really hurt the market.

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