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mattwnz
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  #2750109 26-Jul-2021 18:29
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Geektastic:

 

Prices are certainly at a point where they require a mental reset. We were thinking of buying another house to allow us to have a city side bolt hole and a shorter commute a few times a week. Even in the Hutt you're approaching $850k for something in a nice part like Trentham.

 

 

 

When we arrived 15 years ago or so, that would certainly have bought 2 houses there I am sure. 

 

 

 

However, if you graph property prices over time in any Western economy, the only direction they go is up. You can increase supply to reduce the speed of increase. You can increase interest rates to slow the market. Nothing short of a resurgence of the Black Death wiping out 50% of the population again resulting in empty houses (whole villages simply disappeared in Britain - their names remain in records but there is nothing there but open fields now) would cause a significant long term downward trend I suspect.

 

 

 

 

That is almost getting into Wellington suburb prices. The motorway travel times during peak time are not good, and the trains are quite slow between Hutt. These prices have cause the ripple effect into the Wairarapa, as Wellington people find more value in the Wairarapa pushing up prices. So locals have to compete with these people, who are often buying them as weekenders and some for land-banking, so empty most of the time. You would be lucky to buy a nice house in Martinbourough  or Greytown at those prices. A million seems to be about the norm. I know someone from Wellington who have just purchased a house in the Wairarapa for it's future subdivision potential and is land-banking and using it as a weekender. No point in renting it out due to the hassle.

 

 

 

Increasing interest rates theoretically should either stall house prices, or decrease them. But I can see banks introducing longer terms, such as 40 year mortgages to allow people to borrow more.




mattwnz
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  #2750113 26-Jul-2021 18:34
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Good video from the weekend from Oz discussing New Zealand house prices and NZ MPs who have benefited from the housing crisis and the  lack of action from the government.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1arHOpfFAo


mattwnz
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  #2750122 26-Jul-2021 18:53
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tdgeek:

 

mattwnz:

 

 

 

Someone has to be buying into the market (first home buyers) as people exit it, otherwise it will become a buyers market. So if FHBs dry up, new buyers need to come from somewhere. 

 

 

Was meaning that houses are too expensive for FHB's so they don't buy. The houses we have that are owned by homeowners (obviously :-)  ) will buy and sell between them. People move, upgrade, downgrade. Prices would stabilise once supply of sellers and supply of buyers equalised due to prices rising or falling to a point that its stable. All theoretical though.

 

 

The thing is that a lot of older people will be exiting the market, so it needs 'new blood' . A lot of people are going into retirement units, which does increase the housing supply, but those homes the are selling then need to be purchased. Retirement units are often a license to occupy, so need a large house price sized upfront fee.  Many of these homes being sold maybe older dated 70's houses that need a lot of work  to upgrade, and are often the types of houses FHBs may buy. But maybe more and more are renting them out? But over time they probably won't meet the healthy home requirements. I think raising the standard of healthy homes every so often, until rentals meet current inusaltion and other standards is going to eventually happen, and should help bring more houses onto the market. Some people renting develop lifelong health problems from these damp and mouldy homes. Heard this being discussed on the radio in the weekend, and there were landlords ringing up who objected to a $150 per year rental WOF.




tdgeek
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  #2750136 26-Jul-2021 19:29
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mattwnz:

 

Good video from the weekend from Oz discussing New Zealand house prices and NZ MPs who have benefited from the housing crisis and the  lack of action from the government.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1arHOpfFAo

 

 

Hmmm. For decades and decades there was no issue with housing. Everyones happy buying and living in them. Now its on the Governments to fix it? In some ways its like when things are good, stay away, when we want bailing out, we hold our hand out. We voted all Governments in, why weren't we screaming 20 years ago? Because it was fine, it was ok, now its hand out time. Its easy to blame Labour and National, but we voted them in and we didn't murmur much about housing. Eleventh hour, we do.

 

We sometimes need to stop pointing the finger. Yes, Govt can tighten stuff up but when its not urgent voters will push them out. That's us.

 

Why blame NZ MP's for benefitting?  You also need to blame me, many on here, and the other 2 out of 3 households in every street I feel this attitude is a bit excessive. 


tdgeek
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  #2750143 26-Jul-2021 19:45
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mattwnz:

 

 

 

The thing is that a lot of older people will be exiting the market, so it needs 'new blood' . A lot of people are going into retirement units, which does increase the housing supply, but those homes the are selling then need to be purchased. Retirement units are often a license to occupy, so need a large house price sized upfront fee.  Many of these homes being sold maybe older dated 70's houses that need a lot of work  to upgrade, and are often the types of houses FHBs may buy. But maybe more and more are renting them out? But over time they probably won't meet the healthy home requirements. I think raising the standard of healthy homes every so often, until rentals meet current inusaltion and other standards is going to eventually happen, and should help bring more houses onto the market. Some people renting develop lifelong health problems from these damp and mouldy homes. Heard this being discussed on the radio in the weekend, and there were landlords ringing up who objected to a $150 per year rental WOF.

 

 

Im not sure how many sales rest home people add to the market. They will need to be in their 80's at least in many cases. They will have kids, and grandkids, Id expect many to "sell" the house to the grandkids. Yes there will be straight sales, but there are anyway, so unless there're more, probably won't matter

 

The Healthy Homes issue was not liked, few wanted healthy homes as they cost money to bring to standard. I agree with it though. Ive been landlord, better house = better tenants usually. And no, not every landlord will quibble about a WOF, but they aren't newsworthy, I feel you got sucked in there. 


mattwnz
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  #2750152 26-Jul-2021 20:25
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tdgeek:

mattwnz:


Good video from the weekend from Oz discussing New Zealand house prices and NZ MPs who have benefited from the housing crisis and the  lack of action from the government.


 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1arHOpfFAo



Hmmm. For decades and decades there was no issue with housing. Everyones happy buying and living in them. Now its on the Governments to fix it? In some ways its like when things are good, stay away, when we want bailing out, we hold our hand out. We voted all Governments in, why weren't we screaming 20 years ago? Because it was fine, it was ok, now its hand out time. Its easy to blame Labour and National, but we voted them in and we didn't murmur much about housing. Eleventh hour, we do.


We sometimes need to stop pointing the finger. Yes, Govt can tighten stuff up but when its not urgent voters will push them out. That's us.


Why blame NZ MP's for benefitting?  You also need to blame me, many on here, and the other 2 out of 3 households in every street I feel this attitude is a bit excessive. 



I think the point of the video was that due to vested interests, why would they introduce polices that will negatively effect their own house values, and their own wealth gains?

There is definitely a lot more noise about housing in the last year and many see it as the leading problem in NZ. Also S&P sees a 1 in 3 chance of of disorderly correction in NZ which is bad

 
 
 

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antonknee
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  #2750153 26-Jul-2021 20:26
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tdgeek:

 

Hmmm. For decades and decades there was no issue with housing. Everyones happy buying and living in them. Now its on the Governments to fix it? In some ways its like when things are good, stay away, when we want bailing out, we hold our hand out. We voted all Governments in, why weren't we screaming 20 years ago? Because it was fine, it was ok, now its hand out time. Its easy to blame Labour and National, but we voted them in and we didn't murmur much about housing. Eleventh hour, we do.

 

We sometimes need to stop pointing the finger. Yes, Govt can tighten stuff up but when its not urgent voters will push them out. That's us.

 

Why blame NZ MP's for benefitting?  You also need to blame me, many on here, and the other 2 out of 3 households in every street I feel this attitude is a bit excessive. 

 



 

It’s like boiling the frog - all fine until suddenly it’s not. Not to mention homeowners and investors benefit from, rising house prices, so what incentive do they have to agitate for change? Plus there’s the fact that they tend to be the louder voices and better represented politically. 

I think people did start screaming around 20 years ago. Certainly by 15 years ago they had. 

 

I don’t really ‘blame’ individuals for benefitting from it. People make the choice that benefits them the most, even if that’s the worse choice for society. Such is economics. I do blame people who resist change because they don’t see the problem, or because it doesn’t personally impact them. 


antonknee
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  #2750154 26-Jul-2021 20:29
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tdgeek:

 

The Healthy Homes issue was not liked, few wanted healthy homes as they cost money to bring to standard. I agree with it though. Ive been landlord, better house = better tenants usually. And no, not every landlord will quibble about a WOF, but they aren't newsworthy, I feel you got sucked in there. 

 



 

Few who wanted it? Few landlords? Probably - most (short sighted) “businesses” (and I use the term lightly in reference to property investors, but I refer also to other actual businesses) don’t like regulations or spending money or regulations that require them to invest in their business. 

 

I think most tenants are probably quite happy to have some sort of baseline beyond “barely habitable”. 


quickymart
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  #2750183 26-Jul-2021 21:06
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Query, I know it takes some time to build the houses, but what about if a tonne of land was released tomorrow, either for massive subdivisions to be built on at a later stage, or individual sections for private developers to build singular houses (or a bunch of units on)? Would that make any change to prices, or is that more likely to change once the physical house is built?


mattwnz
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  #2750223 26-Jul-2021 22:37
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Land is very heavily controlled and dip fed onto the market to keep prices high from my experience. So unless the governemnt were to bring in vacant land taxes or sell crown land, nothing much will change. Land prices have doubled in my town since the start of covid

tdgeek
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  #2750306 27-Jul-2021 07:19
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antonknee:

 



I think people did start screaming around 20 years ago. Certainly by 15 years ago they had. 

 

I don’t really ‘blame’ individuals for benefitting from it. People make the choice that benefits them the most, even if that’s the worse choice for society. Such is economics. I do blame people who resist change because they don’t see the problem, or because it doesn’t personally impact them. 

 

 

I never saw anyone screaming 20 years ago or 15. People made choices to buy a house they liked. I dont think they thought that was bad for society. Im not sure who are resisting change, most would like house prices to stabilise. But we voted in Govts who were happy to let the gradual trend continue to slide, and when it became an issue it was too late. Simple economics has been working away over time, now we want it fixed quickly, it cannot be. Measures are in place for investors, Govt will now fund infrastructure, reform RMA which I read is a few years, all that will take time. But there is  building boom on, I assume thats because buyers can sign up for a fixed price, new, small, postage stamp section on the outskirts, as thats affordable (I'm assuming there is a good percentage of FHB's doing that)

 

So you can say that the house price issue is being targeted, many changes, which is good. But it will take time


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2750309 27-Jul-2021 07:23
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antonknee:

 

tdgeek:

 

The Healthy Homes issue was not liked, few wanted healthy homes as they cost money to bring to standard. I agree with it though. Ive been landlord, better house = better tenants usually. And no, not every landlord will quibble about a WOF, but they aren't newsworthy, I feel you got sucked in there. 

 



 

Few who wanted it? Few landlords? Probably - most (short sighted) “businesses” (and I use the term lightly in reference to property investors, but I refer also to other actual businesses) don’t like regulations or spending money or regulations that require them to invest in their business. 

 

I think most tenants are probably quite happy to have some sort of baseline beyond “barely habitable”. 

 

 

As I said, I agree with it. But the arguments against it were daily events. Of course from vested interests, Opposition parties, landlords, businesses, investors. Like the housing crisis, leave it alone, then one day its a big deal out of nowhere, and the fix is a sudden hit, rather than being eased in over time


tdgeek
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  #2750312 27-Jul-2021 07:29
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mattwnz: Land is very heavily controlled and dip fed onto the market to keep prices high from my experience. So unless the governemnt were to bring in vacant land taxes or sell crown land, nothing much will change. Land prices have doubled in my town since the start of covid

 

Who is drip feeding it??

 

Here in ChCh, subdivisions pop up everywhere. There is one in Lincoln which I "think" the developers were assisted by Govt or the local Council

 

Land is scarce. Its farmed, market gardened, etc

 

Its flat here, land is freely available if you buy it from the farmer or market gardener. If land is not flat, there is less suitable land, and with a building boom, much more demand so higher prices


quickymart
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  #2750337 27-Jul-2021 08:20
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tdgeek:

 

Its flat here, land is freely available if you buy it from the farmer or market gardener. If land is not flat, there is less suitable land, and with a building boom, much more demand so higher prices

 

 

I wonder how they would expand, say, Wellington then? A city carved out of the hills with very little flat land available, if there's still any at all.

 

And if it's just a case of making land available to see prices drop, I reckon whoever does it should just do it (it worked in Christchurch, as far as I can tell).


tdgeek
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  #2750339 27-Jul-2021 08:27
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quickymart:

 

tdgeek:

 

Its flat here, land is freely available if you buy it from the farmer or market gardener. If land is not flat, there is less suitable land, and with a building boom, much more demand so higher prices

 

 

I wonder how they would expand, say, Wellington then? A city carved out of the hills with very little flat land available, if there's still any at all.

 

And if it's just a case of making land available to see prices drop, I reckon whoever does it should just do it (it worked in Christchurch, as far as I can tell).

 

 

Wellington is probably at saturation point, so the answer is more apartments or you move out and commute in. Then there is the issue of transport. Apartments make more sense in the short to medium term


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