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379 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 150305 17-Jul-2014 22:18
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Hi guys,

I am planning to replace an existing 30-year old aluminium sliding door. The ali joinery suppliers did not offered safety glass (any of them). The opening is approx 2.4W x 1.9H, the fixed part is divided in three sections (by 2 transoms) and the sliding door has only one transom aligned with the lower one from the fixed section...

What is your understanding / expectation regarding safety glass and code compliance? This job is not part of a larger job with a Building Consent, I will just get the ali joinery guys to make a new door and replace the old one (no consent, no inspections, I do not believe something like this would be required anyway). My worry is that years later when I move out, the new owner might ask why there is no safety glass in the sliding doors? If the door is 30-year old there is no expectation for this, but for a new one?

if safety glass would make sense, where should it be installed on the double glazing panel? Inside? outside? Or maybe both sides? All the ali joinery manufacturers I contacted about this job advised me that it is very uncommon to have safety glass in the sliding doors. It was something to do with the presence or absence of a divider (transom) in the pane of glass. A transom would work as a "vision bar", you cannot go through the glass when the door is closed, because you see the door is closed. No transom, no visual indication and then you MIGHT try to go through the glass... But I could not find anything definitive in the Building Code... there is something about wet / slippery areas (bathroom/laundry) but that is all.

any idea where to look for something "in writing" for peace of mind, would be much appreciated.
Thank you.




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183 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 1091076 17-Jul-2014 22:26
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I think you will find that if it is divided into 3 sections safety glass will not be required. It all depends on the area of glass. NZS 4223:PART 3:1999 sets out the requirements. The  Glass Association of NZ puts out a guide to the standard.
This is a link to it 
http://www.metroglasstech.co.nz/catalogue/documents/201_Human_Impact_Safety_Flow_Chart.pdf

14454 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1091077 17-Jul-2014 22:30
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It is covered in  NZ standards somewhere, I believe is it NZS 4223. But don't quote me on this, but having dividers  in the doors may eliminate the need for safety glass in some situations. The window manufacturers should know the requirements anyway. However I believe you may need a building consent for that work anyway if it is a new window, as if it isn't detailed properly it may leak. Best thing to do is ask your council as they should also know the rules.

 
 
 
 




379 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1091371 18-Jul-2014 13:00
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Thank you for the link to the Metro Glasstech document, I will have a good look at that (it looks comprehensive).
This is not a new door, I am replacing an old door with a new one, there is no building work to alter the structure or the cladding in any way.
The ali joinery guys re-assured me this kind of work is never submitted to Council as it is "replace like for like" situation.
After studying the safety glass "chart" I will know exactly what to ask.

This is great help, thank you.




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  Reply # 1091379 18-Jul-2014 13:09
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aucklander: Thank you for the link to the Metro Glasstech document, I will have a good look at that (it looks comprehensive).
This is not a new door, I am replacing an old door with a new one, there is no building work to alter the structure or the cladding in any way.
The ali joinery guys re-assured me this kind of work is never submitted to Council as it is "replace like for like" situation.
After studying the safety glass "chart" I will know exactly what to ask.

This is great help, thank you.


I would be careful with the like for like thing, as they would need to be identical types.eg replacing timber with aluminium, or replacing aluminium with PVC wouldn't be like for like.  Also some aluminium windows use different types of profiles and flashjng systems, including if you are moving to double glazing which may need a different profile .  I would still check with council and get it in writing. because insurers can decline claims in unconsented works when they should have been

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1091406 18-Jul-2014 13:44
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The latest Schedule 1 to the Building Act "Building work that does not require a building consent" exemption 8
"This exemption allows you to carry out any building work in connection with a
window (including a roof window, whether it is fixed or opening) or an exterior
doorway without needing a building consent where it is an existing dwelling or
outbuilding. That is as long as the original doorway or window has not failed
prematurely and replacing it will not modify or affect any specified system (eg
sprinklers or fire alarms)."

The latest version of this exemption doesn't have the previous restriction that the lintel couldn't be changed.

It would be mickey mouse if you could do anything involving fitting or removing a door without a consent but some other aspect like weatherstripping meant that a consent was required anyway.

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  Reply # 1091422 18-Jul-2014 14:18
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I would treat most work that involves the exterior envelope as needing a consent, and getting clarification from the council in writing if they think it is okay to proceed without it. Like for like is subjective, and could easily be challenged if it isn't identical. I also wouldn't trust builders knowledge, as I have seen things replaced before that needed consent, but the builder said it didn't because they considered it was like for like, but the council didn't. Thus the house was sold with unconsented work, as building consents are not retrospective. Insurers will also look for ways out for declining claims, so the small amount for a consent is worth the piece of mind, plus they will independently check  it is flashed properly.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1091706 18-Jul-2014 20:02
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I'll second getting the council to confirm in writing, not just a phone call.  Or record it.  We built a new home on a section while living in the old home, removed the old when the new was finished.  Council said over the phone it is fine, no resource consent needed as long as removing the old house is part of the building consent.  But when our builders did the building consent, the council would not allow it without a resource consent for 2 building temporary on one site.  The resource consent was for the impact on the neighbours, extra traffic, etc.  Cost us a few thousand dollars and a month delay just because we did not have record that they said it is okay.




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