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Topic # 151629 31-Aug-2014 17:55
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OK, so I am out for EQC repairs, and all rooms, hallway included are "strip/seal/plaster" then "paper/paint".
I've been able to keep an eye on their progress because I was expecting a package to be delivered there so was dropping over every day.
One of the painters Friday said it had arrived and I could go into the kitchen to get it off the bench.

Lets say I was dismayed to see they were painting over old wall paper. (There were about 4 levels of wall paper in the kitchen, so hard to get it all off admittedly).

However am I not getting what the right defination of stripping the walls is?
I'd have thought all wall paper is taken off BEFORE doing the seal/plaster or any paint.

Here is an example of what I saw.


There are worse ones where there is obviously plaster but under the light switch you can clearly see the old wall paper.

Any thoughts appriciated (even if I'm wrong about what stripping the walls means).

Cheers
Tel

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  Reply # 1119045 31-Aug-2014 18:07
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If they were there for a renovation, they would remove the old paper, make a nice job. But this is an EQC repair, their drive is to fix cracks, then paint. If there was a mark elsewhere (not EQ caused), expect them to paint over it. They will argue its not EQ caused and that you get betterment. I recall there may be an option to go above and beyond EQ repairs, at your extra cost. That may depend on the contractor and project manager. 

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  Reply # 1119049 31-Aug-2014 18:19
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Are they getting paid to remove the wallpaper? If so, then I hope they are contacting EQC to say that their job will be cheaper than they quoted, as they can't remove it. Maybe you need to contcat EQC.

 
 
 
 




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  Reply # 1119069 31-Aug-2014 18:29
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Thanks TD,
Point taken
I can tell you now that horrid wall paper is not the wallpaper that was originally in that room, so seems like they have stripped of 2-3 layers in that room.
Some other shots I took in other rooms you can clearly see they have tried to get rid of the wall paper, but left patches of wallpaper behind.
  
Now I know you can plaster over that to make it smooth before painting, But I am wondering if they are meeting their statement of work.
(Also these are painters in BEFORE they have actually done the jack and pack on the piles).
Surely the house is going to move when they do they pretty much making them have to go back in and replaster/repaint?




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  Reply # 1119070 31-Aug-2014 18:32
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mattwnz: Are they getting paid to remove the wallpaper? If so, then I hope they are contacting EQC to say that their job will be cheaper than they quoted, as they can't remove it. Maybe you need to contcat EQC.


Well the whole house is marked as a strip the walls going by the schedule of work, so I would assume yes.

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  Reply # 1119073 31-Aug-2014 18:41
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Tel69:
mattwnz: Are they getting paid to remove the wallpaper? If so, then I hope they are contacting EQC to say that their job will be cheaper than they quoted, as they can't remove it. Maybe you need to contcat EQC.


Well the whole house is marked as a strip the walls going by the schedule of work, so I would assume yes.


Sorry, my post reads a little bit abrupt, didn't mean to. One of my walls in the master bedroom, was a bit rough after cracks. (character home, renovated) so they plastered and put backing wallpaper on, then painted. Easier I assume. Perhaps it was easier for them to set the Scope of Works, as a full strip back. If the job is poor, as it appears to be of they leave bits still there, call the Project Manager. If you come across issues within 90 days of sign off, you can call the Project Manager.

My bathroom was stripped, new floor built. They ripped off the skirtings, and put these back, big ripped nail holes and all. And left a 1cm plus gap between the bottom of the skirting and the new vinyl. Other minor issues too. DO NOT sign it off until YOU are happy. Yes, its not a renovation, but it needs to be right.



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  Reply # 1119082 31-Aug-2014 19:00
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tdgeek:
Sorry, my post reads a little bit abrupt, didn't mean to. One of my walls in the master bedroom, was a bit rough after cracks. (character home, renovated) so they plastered and put backing wallpaper on, then painted. Easier I assume. Perhaps it was easier for them to set the Scope of Works, as a full strip back. If the job is poor, as it appears to be of they leave bits still there, call the Project Manager. If you come across issues within 90 days of sign off, you can call the Project Manager.

My bathroom was stripped, new floor built. They ripped off the skirtings, and put these back, big ripped nail holes and all. And left a 1cm plus gap between the bottom of the skirting and the new vinyl. Other minor issues too. DO NOT sign it off until YOU are happy. Yes, its not a renovation, but it needs to be right.


I did not read it as abrupt and totally understood what you were saying.
I'm not after betterment of the house, just want it looking the way it was, however it does seem the current contractors are taking shortcuts as the Scope of Works says full strip.

I had asked for 2 rooms to have asbestos removed at my cost months ago while they were there doing the rest of the house for EQR (saves on setup costs at least), but that was a no go as EQR "forgot" about us moving out and pretty much lost a weeks work baring the sparky making it safe near the end of the week.

So yes I'm looking out for shortcuts as I know they started a week behind schedule and have been working weekends to catch up.

What I saw seems like a shortcut and ill timed since they still have to get the house level on it's piles.


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  Reply # 1119090 31-Aug-2014 19:15
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Tel69: since they still have to get the house level on it's piles.



Yes, thats odd. Shift the house after plaster repairs. They will likely add cracks shifting it.

No doubt good work is done out there, but there are so many stories like yours and mine

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  Reply # 1119097 31-Aug-2014 19:28
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My partner works for EQC. If you have any questions or queries regarding the repair strategies, send through photos and a query to your contract supervisor/works manager. If they don't give a satisfactory answer then escalate to EQC complaints.




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  Reply # 1119159 31-Aug-2014 20:55
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Batwing: My partner works for EQC. If you have any questions or queries regarding the repair strategies, send through photos and a query to your contract supervisor/works manager. If they don't give a satisfactory answer then escalate to EQC complaints.


Thanks, seems like my site manager and works manager is changing a lot.
The site manager said they had good news for me early last week via e-mail, Now I'm beginning to think their good news is we move in sooner, but been trying to get a hold of the site manager for the last week (before I saw what I posted above).

"OFFICIALLY" I should not be on site, but checking the mail (DX-Mail not redirected) and for my package and putting the rubbish/greens/recycling bins out over the last 2 weeks and putting them back in gave me enough concern to walk in on site tonight.
They will not be happy I did, but from the images posted do you consider my concern warrented is what I'm asking I suppose.
I'm not after improvements, but if they say strip should it not mean that? (and the jack and pack has definately NOT happened)

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  Reply # 1119298 1-Sep-2014 08:16
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I have a very low opinion of EQC / Fletcher EQR - and not without very good reason, based on our absolutely awful experience with them.  This is despite the fact that in the end (it took two years) we did get resolution with money wasted or "lost" by them recovered, a written apology, and a small token sum for "stress and inconvenience".  This did not happen - and I don't believe would have ever happened - if we'd stayed within the black hole of their official "complaints system".  
Anyway, a couple of warnings.  Skim coating over remaining wallpaper isn't ideal.  It might work, but they can't know if the adhesion of the remaining paper will hold up longer term, if it bubbles in a few places then you might be able to touch it up and paint, but ultimately it's creating a potentially worse problem as once skimmed over and painted, the chance of being able to strip it back properly if it does fail in 3 or 5 or 10 years is almost nil - re-gibbing is then needed.  It's much better to remove all existing wallpaper if possible, but this is time consuming and especially difficult with older gib where the paper itself just delaminates. 

Of course it's nuts doing plaster/painting before leveling foundations.  You'd be amazed how much a whole house creaks and groans as it's being leveled.  So a warning bell here, they are either idiots (likely) or they actually don't intend doing the floor levels at all (also likely).  They get around the original assessment stating that might state floor levels are up to 100mm out and should require fixing under MBIE/DBH guidelines, by selecting a "mid point" datum level, then stating that the 100mm is now +50mm in one area, -50mm in another area, so long as the slope in the floors doesn't exceed what's "allowed" in any area, then under those guidelines "no repair required".

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  Reply # 1119300 1-Sep-2014 08:33
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Fred99: I have a very low opinion of EQC / Fletcher EQR - and not without very good reason, based on our absolutely awful experience with them.  This is despite the fact that in the end (it took two years) we did get resolution with money wasted or "lost" by them recovered, a written apology, and a small token sum for "stress and inconvenience".  This did not happen - and I don't believe would have ever happened - if we'd stayed within the black hole of their official "complaints system".  
Anyway, a couple of warnings.  Skim coating over remaining wallpaper isn't ideal.  It might work, but they can't know if the adhesion of the remaining paper will hold up longer term, if it bubbles in a few places then you might be able to touch it up and paint, but ultimately it's creating a potentially worse problem as once skimmed over and painted, the chance of being able to strip it back properly if it does fail in 3 or 5 or 10 years is almost nil - re-gibbing is then needed.  It's much better to remove all existing wallpaper if possible, but this is time consuming and especially difficult with older gib where the paper itself just delaminates. 

Of course it's nuts doing plaster/painting before leveling foundations.  You'd be amazed how much a whole house creaks and groans as it's being leveled.  So a warning bell here, they are either idiots (likely) or they actually don't intend doing the floor levels at all (also likely).  They get around the original assessment stating that might state floor levels are up to 100mm out and should require fixing under MBIE/DBH guidelines, by selecting a "mid point" datum level, then stating that the 100mm is now +50mm in one area, -50mm in another area, so long as the slope in the floors doesn't exceed what's "allowed" in any area, then under those guidelines "no repair required".


Your right. Why? I feel that the repairs are a godsend. No need to quote to get the job, no need to worry about payment by the customer, no need to do a nice job as its a disaster repair (look what I'm doing for YOU), no need to do a nice job as most paople are just average Joe's.

My living room floor had to be removed to repair piles. They removed I'd say around 3 m x 3m, did the job, put board down, cool. Problem was the board was too thick by a VERY noticeable amount.............. A lax, amateur DIY'er would not do that. That and the skirting board issue lost all trust. Its just an easy money frenzy IMHO.

Oh and the cracks in my living roomk are back. They were not fixed, just painted over. Maybe they put goo and levelled it off, they are supposed to have racked it (gouge out the wall a small amount including the crack, fill it). Did not notice after 90 days, but no matter I will do it myself, properly.

Now, as I said earlier I am sure there are good guys out there, but the ratio of good to bad is not great at all  

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  Reply # 1119335 1-Sep-2014 09:13
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Tel69:
"OFFICIALLY" I should not be on site, but checking the mail (DX-Mail not redirected) and for my package and putting the rubbish/greens/recycling bins out over the last 2 weeks and putting them back in gave me enough concern to walk in on site tonight.
They will not be happy I did, but from the images posted do you consider my concern warrented is what I'm asking I suppose.
I'm not after improvements, but if they say strip should it not mean that? (and the jack and pack has definately NOT happened)


Your concerns are warrantied. I've been through a similar experience and in the end gave up on their complaints process. The level of work was way below DIY standard and was all about stuffing money in peoples pockets and wasting my time. My lounge floors are 30 mm over 1.2 metre out and have never been levelled, being serious I didn't want to think about the extra problems they would create by doing the work. Cracks in the brick mortar were grouted the wrong colour to create an unsightly mess which has re-cracked anyway, if I'd known that the people doing the work really have limited skills below what any reasonable DIYer would expect from themselves I would not have allowed it. All in all the so called repair process really added no value to the house at all and work done is of unacceptable standard.




Ross

 

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  Reply # 1119456 1-Sep-2014 11:31
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It's a bit late now - and also for others who haven't had "under cap" repairs carried out by Fletcher EQR under the home repair program which winds up at the end of the year.
There was always the option to nominate your preferred builder to work for Fletchers - rather than just accept the builder that they appointed.  In that case the builder did have to be Fletcher EQR accredited (many builders for various reasons choose not to work for Fletchers).  Some I've dealt with and spoken to have been pretty good - insisting that all work is up to code, rejecting all unreasonable cost cutting, and working for the homeowner's interest.  Even if exempt from consent and unrestricted, the work must still meet code, a builder would be unwise to do anything dodgy under instruction from some fool project manager at EQR, as it could have very serious legal consequences on the builder if something goes wrong years down the track.  Fletcher EQR will be gone, they are anyway an agent of EQC, exempt from commercial law etc as they're governed by act of parliament.  If you want to sue them, then you can't through the disputes tribunal or district court.
So what they've done is appoint painters etc as head contractor, and get them to do work that they really shouldn't be doing at all, but are "allowed to" if the work theoretically meets MBIE/DBH Earthquake repair guidelines and the expanded list of exemption definitions under CCC as BCA.  So there is a big risk of having idiots making decisions about how unqualified monkeys should carry out repairs.
I used consent exemptions myself for some of the work we had to do, but paid a structural engineer to walk around the house with me, with the scope of works I'd prepared, with me pointing out areas of damage and proposed repair method.  I didn't want a full report, but an "expert opinion" on whether further expert input was needed.  Peace of mind for a few hundred $.



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  Reply # 1119764 1-Sep-2014 17:03
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Fred99: but paid a structural engineer to walk around the house with me


Yes so did I, we went around with EQR's proposed works plan going through what they proposed and he seemed pretty happy with it, but pointed out some areas to keep an eye on. (They were not wrong, but more open to changes, take of x meters of bricks when the structural engineer said "I think they will find they will have to almost double that when they start work on it, but the bricky when he finally gets to see the job will just submit a change for the SOW to cover that"). So overall he was happy with the SOW.
However now the agreed scope of works seems to be changing without me knowing.

Right onwards and upwards to the try to get a hold of the site manager again, if no go by tomorrow escellate to EQC complaints or the EQC guy handling our claim.
Been over a week now of e-mails and 2 phone calls, still no response from the site manager (for another matter).


Cheers
Terry

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  Reply # 1120257 2-Sep-2014 09:37
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Getting stuff done is a bit of a nightmare in Chch at the moment. Combine shortage of (good) trades, with 9 or 10 working days notice for consent inspections, some work subject to weather delays, and the fact that if tradies want to get work done, then answering constantly ringing cellphones and spending all day on the phone doesn't mix well.  It's not just smaller trades/jobs, my wife is also involved in PM for some large commercial rebuilds, and some reputable "big name" contractors are constantly letting them down.  Not an "excuse" - but that's probably why you can't get information and prompt responses.
With typical house EQ repairs - once it goes beyond a simple "rake/plaster paint", then cost estimation is never going to be simple.  I know from my own repairs, that agreed estimates for various aspect of the work were miles out - but it "balances out" ok in the end, for "10 minute jobs" that turn into days, there are jobs that could have taken days which can be done in 10 minutes. 
At least in my case, I can make a decision on the spot - and/or take action myself.  With EQR, they need sign-off for variations. The builders I know who are doing project management on sites are not happy - they are being driven nuts.  A consequence of this situation is that trades anticipating a job without clear clean and uninterrupted access are going to quote high prices.  EQC are going to start "cash settling" claims in bulk at the end of the year - these include a lot of jobs where they know damned well that there will be big issues, with other general and non-EQ maintenance issues that are going to have to be done in conjunction with EQ repairs.  Every EQC scope of works I've seen seriously underestimated costs.  When EQC does this cash-settlement process, there are going to be many seriously unhappy campers out there.


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