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Topic # 165491 11-Feb-2015 15:30
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last few weeks upstairs got 28+ degrees during the day and evening, quite hard to get the little one settled for nap or sleep.

had a quote from smart vent, 4 outlet positive pressure ventilation for 3.2k, summer feature (selectively draws air from outside rather than ceiling) plus 800.

consider (assuming the same brand smartvent) kit of 2 outlet + summer feature sells for 2k in bunnings, the price is not too bad consider labour, and some ducting between upstairs and ground level.

but the consultant said the summer feature won't reduce the room temperature, just get rid of the stuffiness.

wife isn't impressed with that, or a 200 mm pipe running exposed inside the wardrobe to send air to ground floor ceiling outlet.

at that price she'd rather get a heat pump installed upstairs, and probably only cost half as much.

so, what's your opinion?

is (any) positive pressure ventilation worth it these days?

I liked the idea of filtered air (hey fever), some comfort during summer, and reduced condensation during winter. but would we be a better position with a heatpump and possibly retro fit double glazing upstairs? thanks.

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  Reply # 1235745 11-Feb-2015 15:36
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check some of the big previous threads on ventilation systems which include smartvent comments:

HRV/DVS/MM
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=150010

Home Ventilation - Separating the Salient from the Sales - Your thoughts?
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=119316




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  Reply # 1235751 11-Feb-2015 15:45
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I would get a quote for a heat pump to assist your decision.

They dry the air as they work, which has benefits for the more sensitive types and I believe this assists in lowering the numbers of dust mites which might help allergies.  Certainly then the double-glazing will reduce the amount of power the heat pump uses to maintain the temperature.

You could also put a single vent positive pressure system in - this could be in the form of a single vent into the central hallway.  Positive pressure is positive pressure, and the number of outlets is largely irrelevant as the air will escape out of the easiest route it finds.  Just a basic switch on/off system with none of the bells and whistles.  Another option is a cheap manually switched heat transfer kit to get the cool/arm air from the location of the heat pump (master bedroom?) to the other bedrooms.




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  Reply # 1235758 11-Feb-2015 16:06
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Dont bother trying to heat transfer kit air from an airconditioner in a room, its not different enough to the destination room to do much.

If you are hot. Get the aircon.

Vent systems will solve the locked up stuffy house humid air problem, but that is about it. Easier to heat dry air doesnt really matter if you are not constantly heating that air, it just means the house is nicer to be in.

They are great for people that are not home during the day to open up windows. Dont expect them to do anything towards making the house cooler as the outside air will be in the 24's and by the time its ducted thru the roofspace etc will be higher. So even if it comes in at 25 you need a hurricane of wind to get the house down to that.

Cheap install if you can do back to back on an aircon. and it will save you power in winter which I have no doubts the vent systems do not do after trying to heat a room with one in it.




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  Reply # 1235771 11-Feb-2015 16:16
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You have probably heard of people with heat pumps having their average power price go up more than expected.  This is typically because the heat pumps are so convenient that the buyers leave them on for long periods of time.

Analogy:  If you buy a car that uses 1/3 less petrol for your daily commute, but it is so comfy you start going on road trips just because you can, you'll still end up paying for more gas than with your previous vehicle.




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  Reply # 1235789 11-Feb-2015 16:40
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For heat, air con. For ventilation, ventilation system. Positive pressure I'm not a huge fan of, they massively oversell the benefits. Heat recovery ventilation makes sense. In older houses you really don't want ceiling air coming in - I've just switched my very old ventilation system from using roof air to getting air in from the eaves (HARD work) and the place smells better and is less dusty. I use it just to get rid of the overnight moisture - even drawing outside air in it made little difference to the temperature, but it is a smallish system in a moderate sized house.

Coupling a ventilation and heating system together is far more effective IMHO, wish I'd done that. Central heating and ventilation would be nice, but you probably need 10-20kw of heat depending on the size of your house.




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  Reply # 1235795 11-Feb-2015 16:50
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Get a heat pump if you want cooling. I personally wouldn't both with home ventilation systems which aren't attached to a heat pump. I have a ventilation system in my house and it doesn't work, as we have a large house with an upstairs, and very little roof space. It also pumps in cold air in the winter from the roof, making the house colder, when you want it warmer. A heat pump is very efficient for heating (as cheap as having a wood burner), and also has the benefit of cooling.

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  Reply # 1236252 12-Feb-2015 08:52
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We have been running into the exact same problem - our baby boys room going up to over 30 on the still hot days....had to do something, moved him to another room (saved a couple of deg; but made him closer to our room - argh)...had a number of people come around and our only real solution was a ducted heat pump. Highwall or console units wouldn't work due to the layout. So anyhow, quoted 4.5k installed, for a Panasonic 3 room system. Being installed next week (better late than never). 
We looked at many other options (shutters/heat transfer systems/portable ac/fans/etc), but most of them only made a difference over summer (at best)...this way and not for that much difference in outlay, at least it should be great over winter and summer!

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  Reply # 1236254 12-Feb-2015 08:55
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$4.5K installed for a ducted 3 room heat pump is pretty good :) Fujitsu has a similar system, I forget the name of it right now, but I'd look into that next time I need one. Make sure you can close vents of rooms you don't need air conditioned, either from a panel or manually by closing a duct.




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  Reply # 1236257 12-Feb-2015 08:58
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Thats what we found out - even getting a unit from a mate of a mate who works at Panasonic it couldn't get cheaper. These systems come with those close off vents by default, so really looking forward to it - its a fair chunk of cash but I think it will be a no brainer in the long run. 



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  Reply # 1236580 12-Feb-2015 14:16
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So anyhow, quoted 4.5k installed, for a Panasonic 3 room system. Being installed next week (better late than never). 
We looked at many other options (shutters/heat transfer systems/portable ac/fans/etc), but most of them only made a difference over summer (at best)...this way and not for that much difference in outlay, at least it should be great over winter and summer!


Very interested!

PM sent asking for some contacts.

I saw that EES is doing the Panasonic ducted system, their diagram shows the compressor sits in the ceiling space?

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  Reply # 1236593 12-Feb-2015 14:25
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Thats who we are going with (EES); the fan box will be in the roof space, the compressor will be outside (just like a normal heat pump)

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  Reply # 1236595 12-Feb-2015 14:27
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Do these ducted systems not close off rooms that you turn off automatically? I thought that was the norm for them.




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  Reply # 1236601 12-Feb-2015 14:32
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Suppose it depends on the functionality of the system in question. The system we are getting installed has manually controlled vents in each room which allow you to shut off/reduce the amount of airflow as required. I suppose some may have this functionality in the control unit, but suggest that it all comes at a price point :)

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  Reply # 1236602 12-Feb-2015 14:39
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Ah ok. I was expecting a seperate controller for each room. since otherwise they would go way different to each other depending on sun/occupation/appliance use in them.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 1236614 12-Feb-2015 14:43
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yeah nah - that is one of the downsides of the ducted solution - in that one temp is set at the controller level and then each duct (ie room) is pushed the same temp air at the same rate....some installers suggest running multiple high wall units running off a large multi unit compressor to allow that flexibility you are talking about. In our case though 1) I hate the look of high wall units especially in smallers spaces (like bedrooms) and 2) we couldn't physically put them into each room because of the layout/design.

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