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PPAP

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#189139 17-Dec-2015 22:16
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Currently the bathroom has a PDL RCD powerpoint installed. I have checked the circuit and find that the wash machine is on the same circuit as the bathroom RCD powerpoint, but it's on the upper stream, actually the wash machine is on the 1st powerpoint. Please forgive my terminology.

Since the fuse box is the old style thus there is no RCD on the panel, can I relocate the RCD powerpoint from the bathroom to the wash machine?  So it can protect both the wash machine and the bathroom, and some others in between. The capacity of the circuit is 15A which is lower than PDL RCD's 20A. 

I think the rule says you have to have RCD protected powerpoint in the bathroom.
But does it specify where exactly the RCD device should be located? 

Thanks guys. 



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DarthKermit
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  #1452720 17-Dec-2015 22:29
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Not a sparky, but I'm pretty sure that a permanently wired RCD unit or power point is supposed to be the first unit on a circuit.

Hammerer
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  #1452726 17-Dec-2015 22:39
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NZECP 51:2004: New Zealand Electrical Code of Practice for homeowner/occupier's electrical wiring work in domestic installations

Prior to 1 January 2003, domestic electrical installations may
have had an RCD fitted in the bathroom or laundry, usually as
a socket-outlet type.


f the  RCD  is  to  be  connected  to  the  main  switchboard,  this
work MUST be carried out by a licensed electrical worker.  If
the RCD forms part of a socket-outlet, it can be installed by
you.  This RCD must be connected to the first socket-outlet
on the new wiring circuit from the switchboard. 
...
All new circuits run from the main switchboard of an existing
installation are also required to be RCD protected.  This RCD
may be mounted on the switchboard for lighting and socket-
outlet circuits or at the first socket-outlet on the circuit.

 
 
 
 


PPAP

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  #1452727 17-Dec-2015 22:41
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DarthKermit: Not a sparky, but I'm pretty sure that a permanently wired RCD unit or power point is supposed to be the first unit on a circuit.


So does that mean all the bathrooms in old houses must have the powerpoint on a standalone circuit on it's own? Apparently mine is not like that, it has the washing machine, microwave, fridge, one of the bedroom and the bathroom. There are 2 other circuits feeding other powerpoints around the house. And the range, lightings, water, ect.

 

Athlonite
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  #1452729 17-Dec-2015 22:49
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PPAP:
DarthKermit: Not a sparky, but I'm pretty sure that a permanently wired RCD unit or power point is supposed to be the first unit on a circuit.


So does that mean all the bathrooms in old houses must have the powerpoint on a standalone circuit on it's own? Apparently mine is not like that, it has the washing machine, microwave, fridge, one of the bedroom and the bathroom. There are 2 other circuits feeding other powerpoints around the house. And the range, lightings, water, ect.

 


If the Socket in the bathroom is an Socket/RCD unit in one your good to go you don't require a separate RCD unit in the fuse box



If it's anywhere else in the house other than the Bathroom or the fuse box (If the bathroom is the only socket on the line) then I'd probably say no 

richms
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  #1452730 17-Dec-2015 22:52
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Never liked the idea of those being in the bathroom, since that is where the condensation runs down the wall and over it etc.

Putting it elsewhere also means you can stick a 4 way powerpoint in the bathroom to let all the toothbrush chargers etc be plugged in without a powerstrip in there.




Richard rich.ms

Athlonite
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  #1452734 17-Dec-2015 22:56
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richms: Never liked the idea of those being in the bathroom, since that is where the condensation runs down the wall and over it etc.

Putting it elsewhere also means you can stick a 4 way powerpoint in the bathroom to let all the toothbrush chargers etc be plugged in without a powerstrip in there.


Your Idea is good aslong as it's the only socket on the line between fuse box and bathroom but you will need the RCD to be in the fuse box for it to be legal 

Hammerer
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  #1452735 17-Dec-2015 23:05
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I posted the link to the guidelines in my first post. It looks like nobody bothers to read them - just like nobody reads manuals for electronic devices. Anyway, you can read all about it the requirements starting at this web page:
http://www.energysafety.govt.nz/consumer/safe-living-with-electricity/getting-electrical-work-done/doing-your-own-electrical-work#I

The rules depend on the zone in which you want to place the outlet in a room containing a bath or shower or other water container. It is not just a case of which room it is in.

 
 
 
 


Fred99
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  #1452851 18-Dec-2015 09:36
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Athlonite:
richms: Never liked the idea of those being in the bathroom, since that is where the condensation runs down the wall and over it etc.

Putting it elsewhere also means you can stick a 4 way powerpoint in the bathroom to let all the toothbrush chargers etc be plugged in without a powerstrip in there.


Your Idea is good aslong as it's the only socket on the line between fuse box and bathroom but you will need the RCD to be in the fuse box for it to be legal 


I like the idea of having RCD test and reset button in a bathroom.  
If you needed more than one outlet then dual socket RCD powerpoints like the one shown above are available, and a second matching plain dual socket could be looped off the RCD protected circuit, or you can get RCDs with standard wallplate with just test and reset buttons.  If any of those are used, they come with a sticker to attach to the switchboard to identify RCD protected circuits, lest a sparky inadvertently fries your expensive RCDs in testing.


dolsen
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  #1452854 18-Dec-2015 09:59
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PPAP:
DarthKermit: Not a sparky, but I'm pretty sure that a permanently wired RCD unit or power point is supposed to be the first unit on a circuit.


So does that mean all the bathrooms in old houses must have the powerpoint on a standalone circuit on it's own? Apparently mine is not like that, it has the washing machine, microwave, fridge, one of the bedroom and the bathroom. There are 2 other circuits feeding other powerpoints around the house. And the range, lightings, water, ect.

 


If you have a fridge on the circuit, you don't want to use one of the socket RCD's on the circuit upstream from it. Unlike the switchboard RCDs, if there is a power cut,the socket RCDs switch off until you manually reset it meaning that the food in your fridge is at risk.




gregmcc
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  #1452857 18-Dec-2015 10:05
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PPAP: Currently the bathroom has a PDL RCD powerpoint installed. I have checked the circuit and find that the wash machine is on the same circuit as the bathroom RCD powerpoint, but it's on the upper stream, actually the wash machine is on the 1st powerpoint. Please forgive my terminology.

Since the fuse box is the old style thus there is no RCD on the panel, can I relocate the RCD powerpoint from the bathroom to the wash machine?  So it can protect both the wash machine and the bathroom, and some others in between. The capacity of the circuit is 15A which is lower than PDL RCD's 20A. 

I think the rule says you have to have RCD protected powerpoint in the bathroom.
But does it specify where exactly the RCD device should be located? 

Thanks guys. 





It can be relocated further up stream of the circuit, as long as the downstream sockets (the bathroom in this case) are wired to the protected terminals.

As usual, get an electrician to relocate it, it should be a simple easy job, it should be certified as safe by the electrician after it's done.

Don't attempt to do this yourself, wiring these the wrong way around will damage them beyond use.


---I am an Electrician---


Fred99
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  #1452860 18-Dec-2015 10:11
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dolsen:
PPAP:
DarthKermit: Not a sparky, but I'm pretty sure that a permanently wired RCD unit or power point is supposed to be the first unit on a circuit.


So does that mean all the bathrooms in old houses must have the powerpoint on a standalone circuit on it's own? Apparently mine is not like that, it has the washing machine, microwave, fridge, one of the bedroom and the bathroom. There are 2 other circuits feeding other powerpoints around the house. And the range, lightings, water, ect.

 


If you have a fridge on the circuit, you don't want to use one of the socket RCD's on the circuit upstream from it. Unlike the switchboard RCDs, if there is a power cut,the socket RCDs switch off until you manually reset it meaning that the food in your fridge is at risk.





That's not correct for the PDL Powerguard types shown.  They do not need resetting after power cut etc. 

dolsen
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  #1452877 18-Dec-2015 10:48
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Fred99:
dolsen:

If you have a fridge on the circuit, you don't want to use one of the socket RCD's on the circuit upstream from it. Unlike the switchboard RCDs, if there is a power cut,the socket RCDs switch off until you manually reset it meaning that the food in your fridge is at risk.





That's not correct for the PDL Powerguard types shown.  They do not need resetting after power cut etc. 



I see that the specifications have changed for the newer ones and they no longer need resetting. Older ones were designed to need to be reset if the power was interrupted, however, I can no longer find any reference to this behaviour.
Anyway - check what the behaviour is before relocating it.


Fred99
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  #1452885 18-Dec-2015 11:04
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dolsen:
Fred99:
dolsen:

If you have a fridge on the circuit, you don't want to use one of the socket RCD's on the circuit upstream from it. Unlike the switchboard RCDs, if there is a power cut,the socket RCDs switch off until you manually reset it meaning that the food in your fridge is at risk.





That's not correct for the PDL Powerguard types shown.  They do not need resetting after power cut etc. 



I see that the specifications have changed for the newer ones and they no longer need resetting. Older ones were designed to need to be reset if the power was interrupted, however, I can no longer find any reference to this behaviour.
Anyway - check what the behaviour is before relocating it.


SWMBO worked for PDL on a temp assignment 20 years ago and got some of those RCD sockets at cost - even way back then they were not the type that needed resetting after the power was cut, like plug-in RCDs.

richms
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  #1453041 18-Dec-2015 14:20
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dolsen:
If you have a fridge on the circuit, you don't want to use one of the socket RCD's on the circuit upstream from it. Unlike the switchboard RCDs, if there is a power cut,the socket RCDs switch off until you manually reset it meaning that the food in your fridge is at risk.


My ones I got for the aquariums do not reset on power outages.

Unlike plugin ones usually do. That is a different standard that covers things for workplaces, and that is required so that tools do not restart by suprise. Makes them useless for other purposes tho.




Richard rich.ms

PPAP

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  #1453144 18-Dec-2015 17:10
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gregmcc:
PPAP: Currently the bathroom has a PDL RCD powerpoint installed. I have checked the circuit and find that the wash machine is on the same circuit as the bathroom RCD powerpoint, but it's on the upper stream, actually the wash machine is on the 1st powerpoint. Please forgive my terminology.

Since the fuse box is the old style thus there is no RCD on the panel, can I relocate the RCD powerpoint from the bathroom to the wash machine?  So it can protect both the wash machine and the bathroom, and some others in between. The capacity of the circuit is 15A which is lower than PDL RCD's 20A. 

I think the rule says you have to have RCD protected powerpoint in the bathroom.
But does it specify where exactly the RCD device should be located? 

Thanks guys. 





It can be relocated further up stream of the circuit, as long as the downstream sockets (the bathroom in this case) are wired to the protected terminals.

As usual, get an electrician to relocate it, it should be a simple easy job, it should be certified as safe by the electrician after it's done.

Don't attempt to do this yourself, wiring these the wrong way around will damage them beyond use.


---I am an Electrician---



Thanks for the definite answer . 

I'm not a licensed sparky. I just had my electronics education during my early uni years though since then I had a totally different path. I'm a audioholic--ish, I build amps myself for a hoppy. While I'm no way as competent as a licensed sparky, I would say I'm ok for such an easy job, as long as it is by law permitted to be done by myself. 

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