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timmmay

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#197971 20-Jun-2016 14:54
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NB: This is resolved. See answer below.

 

 

 

I've had some work done at home recently that's required external sealing around windows. That was done two weeks ago, the painter painted over the filler, but now the paint is cracked. The windows that have only been primed are not cracked. There is the suggestion that the sealing around the window was done with two different products, which could explain this, but seems a little too convenient.

 

 

 

The painter is saying the sealer cracked. The window company is saying the paint has cracked. I can't say for sure. If it's caused by the sealer the window company used the painting company shouldn't have to pay to repaint. If it's just cracked paint the window company shouldn't have to do anything. Note that neither have been fully paid.

 

 

 

The window guy is saying they use Bostik silicone sealer, which is great quality and should never crack. The painter is saying he's seen cracking before where no more gaps was used instead of silicone. I don't know if we just need to silicone over the cracks and repaint, or if we have to remove all the seal and do it again. My concern is it will happen again in weeks or months and it'll be difficult to get either company back.

 

 

 

Can anyone give me any information or suggestions how to progress?

 

 

 

NB: I'm deliberately not mentioning company names and would appreciate if this discussion is about the issue, not the parties involved.

 

NB2: speculating about the cause of the problem, while interesting, isn't useful. I really need to find someone authoratative to come in, assess, and decide on a resolution. I guess Dulux or Bostik are the obvious choice. I'll ask a friend who works at Dulux.

 

 

 

 

 

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Disrespective
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  #1577191 20-Jun-2016 15:23
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What brand of paint did you use? Give the local (Resene/Dulux/whatever) store a call and ask them what their position is on the situation. If they say they don't warranty the paint when used on silicone then it'll be a fight with your painter as it's his job to know what would work. 

 

Selleys No More Gaps can be painted over after as little as 30min (or up to 2 days for larger areas). Do you know specifically what Bostik silicone was used? The glazier should have provided one which could be painted over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


timmmay

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  #1577194 20-Jun-2016 15:29
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Dulux I think. Bostick safe seal. Both parties say they're right.

 
 
 
 


gzt

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  #1577201 20-Jun-2016 15:37
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Can over thinning the paint cause this issue? Asking the question. Don't know.

ubergeeknz
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  #1577203 20-Jun-2016 15:39
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That sealant allows a lot of movement, probably more than the paint can handle.  Maybe that's what has happened here?  Or the paint hasn't adhered properly for some other reason (2nd coat too fast?)


gzt

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  #1577207 20-Jun-2016 15:41
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timmmay: Dulux I think. Bostick safe seal. Both parties say they're right.

Imo discuss this situation with technical people from Dulux and Bostik. Ideally send photos and ask for an opinion about what went wrong. They will both know a variety of scenarios.

There is also the scenario of faulty product. Does happen.

Edit: also possible you may get a site visit from one or the other if technical reps get involved.

Edit: obviously you need exact product names and ideally batch numbers or tins or tubes in the worst case scenario but probably it is very simple use or application issue and not product related.

gzt

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  #1577235 20-Jun-2016 16:09
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I'm guessing this is an acrylic paint. I'm wondering what would happen if sealant cleanup was performed with something oil based prior to acrylic application.

Is the paint flaking only on the sealant or also parts of the surrounding area?

mdf

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  #1577238 20-Jun-2016 16:14
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Some thoughts/suggestions:

 

- Given that it only seems to have happened on the painted windows (not the primed windows), did the painter paint with an enamel paint (even an acrylic/water-based enamel)? These will dry harder/more brittle than a pure acrylic. Might be that you need additional acrylic primer undercoats to create an inbetween layer between silicone and top coats (given the described symptoms, this would be my first guess).

 

- Only some silicone sealer is designed to be painted. Is the silicone clear (usually not paintable) or white? 

 

- Temperature has fluctuated a lot in Wellington recently (IIRC you're in Wellington too?). Was the paint applied during a big change in temperature? Cold to hot can cause paint to dry too quickly making it brittle, but heat can also cause expansion in the underlying substrate. Finally, if the substrate was wet, can cause the paint to bubble and flake as the water boils off the next time it's sunny. Might need to let the silicone weather in before painting.

 

 


 
 
 
 


D1023319
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  #1577272 20-Jun-2016 16:56
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Can you show a picture from further back as I can't see what part of windows needs sealant. In fact I am curious why you need sealant on a window

timmmay

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  #1577276 20-Jun-2016 17:00
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I can't answer any of the questions sorry, I just don't know enough. I know the window firm and the painting firm are both excellent, but all firms rush and cut corners to save time and money.

 

The sealent is claimed to be Bostik SafeSeal, which is meant to be the best possible silicone and will never crack. There's an idea that they may have run out and used no more gaps, which will often show this same behavior. It's also possible it's the paint that's cracked and the sealant is fine. I just have no idea.

 

I'm not really after ideas of what the problem is, I'm after ideas about how to resolve it. This means finding someone authoritative who can come in, assess, and decide on the best resolution. Bostik or Dulux are probably good candidates for this.

 

This is to seal between a new PVC window and the existing timber frame.


mdf

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  #1577289 20-Jun-2016 17:28
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Is there a can of paint or a tube of silicon around that you could post the exact product name (or even a picture)?

 

If there is a gap in the paint big enough (or flakey enough to come off) are you seeing white or clear underneath?


timmmay

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  #1577316 20-Jun-2016 17:40
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Nope they all disposed of their rubbish. There are no gaps, but it will probably come to someone digging out the sealer and trying to identify it.


mdf

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  #1577319 20-Jun-2016 17:45
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timmmay:

 

Nope they all disposed of their rubbish. There are no gaps, but it will probably come to someone digging out the sealer and trying to identify it.

 

 

Gee, the one time you wouldn't mind a messy tradesman...

 

Can you ask the painter the exact type of paint used - if Dulux, I would imagine it would be either "Aquanamel" or "Weathershield" top coats, possibly over a base of "1-step".


mdf

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  #1577328 20-Jun-2016 17:57
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 NB2: speculating about the cause of the problem, while interesting, isn't useful. I really need to find someone authoratative to come in, assess, and decide on a resolution. I guess Dulux or Bostik are the obvious choice. I'll ask a friend who works at Dulux.

 

My instinct is that it is more likely to be the painter at fault - either the incorrect paint was applied, or it wasn't applied in the right conditions (e.g. too hot, too cold, too soon etc.). This is entirely based on Occam's razor. The fact that primer/undercoat over the same sealant hasn't cracked (which it shouldn't) would tend to point towards something wrong with the topcoating. Different sealants (even different batches of the same sealant) used in different places seems too coincidental to be true.

 

Mr Dulux or Ms Bostik is going to ask the same questions that have come up in this thread though (what type of sealant, what type of paint, how it was applied etc.), so you will probably save yourself some to-ing and fro-ing/general frustration if you can sort this out in advance. And I would imagine that they will still end up finger pointing ("the product is fine; must have been the application").


timmmay

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  #1577354 20-Jun-2016 18:58
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OK I'll try to work out products used thanks.

tdgeek
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  #1577408 20-Jun-2016 21:16
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I painted our reclad weatherboard house a couple of years before the earthquakes. Was recommended Bostik something, as its flexible. For where there were small gaps. Recommended Dulux Moto something (Guard?), external paint as thats flexible too. Not one crack. Some gaps were not that small either. pretty impressed. Ill get the Bostik model in day or so when back there


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