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Topic # 204467 2-Oct-2016 20:49
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@Sumnerboy I'm looking at you here :-)

 

 

 

I'm about to sign a contract to build a new house in Rolleston (I have bought the land and going through final stages of a quote for the house build)... Unfortunately, while the local tech people for Mitsubishi and Daikin (and some others) are all trying to be helpful, they just don't have any reliable answers to my question, so I have had to take the heating out of the house quote and pursue it myself while other stuff happens.

 

My question.

 

"What ducted heatpump system would you recommend for basic multizone control (on/off really)  and integration into a home automation system either directly, or through the addition of a 3rd party smart thermostat like Nest or EcoBee?"

 

 

 

I could HEAR the blank stare from most people when I asked this, but the few that understood it didn't have any reliable answers. Note that I don't want to purely use the proprietary apps for the individual brands - partly on principle, partly because they won't be able to integrate with things like "Alexa, turn on the projector" and partly because I don't like the idea of shunting the data off through a cloud server.

 

 

 

Daikin have what looks like the most likely solution, either using their SkyFi controller (BRP15A61) or an older unit (kkrp01a).

 

- I know their app is the only one that is meant to use it but I have read suggestions that it can function in basically the same way as the earlier one.

 

- Do I need a multizone controller (in addition to the IP unit) to control the other rooms? (open/close their vents and adjust main fan speed to compensate?)

 

- Does the old unit support new heatpumps?

 

 

 

Mitsubishi have what looks like a nice solution, but it's definitely tied into their own cloud based ecosystem

 

I haven't looked in detail at other brands yet

 

 

 

I'd prefer to use IP - but I just saw this - https://harizanov.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/DAIKIN-Internet-remote-control-unit.pdf

 

I'd happily stump up for something like an EcoBee3, but none of the places I spoke to even knew what I was talking about when I asked if they supported 3rd party thermostats.

 

 

 

I know there are a bunch of professional and commercial systems but while I'm happy to spend $500 on IP enabling my system, I'm not prepared to spend $4k for a controller and $unknown on professional services to come and deploy it :-)

 

 

 

This thread is hopefully to help me collect knowledge and experiences that can help me choose:

 

- Brand and model of heatpump

 

- Options required (IP add-in and controller upgrades?)

 

- Whether 3rd party thermostats can integrate

 

- What the smart home control integration is like

 

 

 

Cheers - N

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1644395 2-Oct-2016 21:04
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I built my house in Sumner (go figure) in 2011. I knew nothing about HA back then and went for a Daikin heat pump purely out of luck. The exact model is FVXS50G-RXS50JVMA (indoor-outdoor model numbers). After I got into HA and openHAB I did some research and cmae across the KKRP01A - I sourced one from Rod at Peninsular Air in Sydney (couldn't find anyone in NZ selling them direct to the public). Cost was about $300 from memory. It is a little white box you have to wire into your indoor unit yourself. There is a socket on the main motherboard you have to plug the device into. That all sounds easy enough but getting to the main motherboard is a little tricky!

 

It has an ethernet port and once connected and powered up exposes a simple HTTP server. I wrote a little openHAB binding (https://github.com/openhab/openhab/wiki/Daikin-Binding) which allows you montior the heatpump state (via polling) and send commands for pretty much all commands. I have been using this binding with the KKRP01A for a few years now and it works great.

 

You would need once in each indoor unit I believe. I don't think they can control multiple units, but I am not sure about that.

 

I also don't know if they are available from Peninsular Air anymore - I think I recall someone contacting them and being unable to get one.

 

Then there is the SkyFi controller. Another openHAB user (also NZ based) extended the binding to support this new controller and I believe is running it successfully as well. That controller might be easier to come by? Plus it is WIFI, although if you are building then you won't have trouble running CAT6 everywhere you need it.

 

Happy to answer any other questions you might have. I wish I knew what I know now when I built my place!! 




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  Reply # 1644397 2-Oct-2016 21:15
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SumnerBoy:

 

 

 

[snip] Then there is the SkyFi controller. Another openHAB user (also NZ based) extended the binding to support this new controller and I believe is running it successfully as well. That controller might be easier to come by? Plus it is WIFI, although if you are building then you won't have trouble running CAT6 everywhere you need it.

 

Happy to answer any other questions you might have. I wish I knew what I know now when I built my place!! 

 

 

Many thanks! That little gem about the Skyfi controller being locally addressable through any sort of non-encrypted HTTP is awesome. Makes the decision pretty straightforward I think. I might have to extend the bindings myself for multi-zone, but as their app supports it (and their app has a non-cloud mode) I think it should be possible.

 

Don't suppose you know how to get in touch with the person that modified the binding to support the skyfi unit?

 

 

 

I'm learning at a hell of a pace but it seems the home automation side of heating (outside commercial setups) in NZ is non-existent.

 

 

 

Cheers - N


 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1644400 2-Oct-2016 21:26
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Your best bet is probably posting on the openHAB forums - here is a post talking about the SkyFi unit - https://community.openhab.org/t/daikin-binding-in-oh2/11736/2

 

Yeah in an ideal world every device/system would have an open API for easy access via systems like openHAB. But like most things every manufacturer thinks they can build a *better* app so we end up with 100 different apps for each device, each one using their own propriatory comms/control.

 

Just run CAT6 to every possible system/device - you never know when something will become IOT-enabled!


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  Reply # 1644458 2-Oct-2016 23:18
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Talkiet:

the Skyfi controller being locally addressable through any sort of non-encrypted HTTP

 

 

Just make sure it's only locally accessible through any sort of HTTP...

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  Reply # 1644490 3-Oct-2016 08:03
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I went with EES and got a panasonic ducted heat pump system installed with a Intesis home wifi adapter.  This wifi adapter gave a dumb heat pump system ability to be controlled via an app/web.  They also made a IFTTT channel for intesis and I then used that with openHAB to turn it on/off.

 

I would of rather had something all done locally and not have to use IFTTT, but it worked.   When I was looking panasonic and daikin where the only ones I could find doing wifi ducted systems and daikin was about $2000 more expensive than the panasonic.


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  Reply # 1644493 3-Oct-2016 08:25
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Couldnt find anything when my sister was looking, ended up going for ducted gas instead, zoned with 3 things on the wall that look like a 1990's aircon remote that connect back to something with telephone type cable. They had no solutions on how to automate it and as it is not IR, I cant even put in one of those cheap broadlink wifi IR controlly things so have to make do with the hopeless timer on the wall remote things.





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  Reply # 1644494 3-Oct-2016 08:26
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I have a Daikin system with the SKyFi controller. The app you get for the smart phones are pretty crap (especially the connectivity part) but the SkyFi unit has a very simple api to manage it. Just google for the API and you will find plenty of information. How i have set it up with Domoticz and Vera is to set up virtual buttons to turn it on, off, change mode and that is simply done with a HTTP post.


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  Reply # 1644496 3-Oct-2016 08:28
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Also, speaking to few companies, they did not recommend going with a zone controller as they dont believe it worked well enough to warrant the extra expense. HVAC systems are tricky to get it right so you need to make sure who ever is installing it knows what they are doing.  




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  Reply # 1644586 3-Oct-2016 10:49
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T0ny, that's some awesome info thanks!

 

 

 

Cheers - Neil G


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  Reply # 1644589 3-Oct-2016 10:57
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Be careful with the SkyFi units from Daikin...

 

Mine is not the same as the ones implemented in OpenHAB, but I believe is the same one used in DomoticZ. The http calls are different to eachother. I'm in the process of trying to figure something out for OH for mine, but think i'll end up just using bash/python scripts as my binding writing skills are non existent, heh. I will also add that my SkyFi system is flakey as hell even on a local connection, I would make sure you get a controller you know works based on the ones described. I have no idea what controller mine is, but I'm really not happy with it at all.


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  Reply # 1644670 3-Oct-2016 12:49
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Will be interested if you find anything that works with a Panasonic ducted setup. We just got ours installed but the guys installing it couldn't set the wifi side of things up yet as it wasn't available to them, we're talking about retro fitting something one day.

 

Currently we just have a wired controller but if you asked me if it was worth spending another $1K to get the wifi controller I probably wouldn't worry about it now. I thought we'd like to be able to set things remotely but meh the wall controller is so easy to setup and the thing is cheap as chips to run anyway that I'd be happy just to leave it on if we were going out.

 

We're in Dunedin and excluding garaging we are at roughly 180m2. Had the house sitting between 18-22C from 17:00-2:00 pretty much every day. Looking at the unit we've avged about $2-3 power each day which I'm pretty chuffed with. Will be interesting to see how it goes over Winter :D


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  Reply # 1644674 3-Oct-2016 12:53
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Oh I forgot to add. We didn't bother multi zoning it in the end. We were $12K fully installed for a 16kw Panasonic unit. Heating 4 BR + 2 living areas. Initially I liked the idea of having the bedrooms on a seperate zone but given that you can still turn vents off manually, and it's only costing cents per day per room to heat the whole house I don't see the benefit.


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  Reply # 1644676 3-Oct-2016 12:53
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timtait:

 

Will be interested if you find anything that works with a Panasonic ducted setup. We just got ours installed but the guys installing it couldn't set the wifi side of things up yet as it wasn't available to them, we're talking about retro fitting something one day.

 

Currently we just have a wired controller but if you asked me if it was worth spending another $1K to get the wifi controller I probably wouldn't worry about it now. I thought we'd like to be able to set things remotely but meh the wall controller is so easy to setup and the thing is cheap as chips to run anyway that I'd be happy just to leave it on if we were going out.

 

We're in Dunedin and excluding garaging we are at roughly 180m2. Had the house sitting between 18-22C from 17:00-2:00 pretty much every day. Looking at the unit we've avged about $2-3 power each day which I'm pretty chuffed with. Will be interesting to see how it goes over Winter :D

 

 

an intesishome addon for a panasonic ducted heat pump system cost me around $400 from EES.  You could probably order one and install it yourself or pay someone to install one for total $500ish.


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  Reply # 1644683 3-Oct-2016 12:57
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timtait:

 

Oh I forgot to add. We didn't bother multi zoning it in the end. We were $12K fully installed for a 16kw Panasonic unit. Heating 4 BR + 2 living areas. Initially I liked the idea of having the bedrooms on a seperate zone but given that you can still turn vents off manually, and it's only costing cents per day per room to heat the whole house I don't see the benefit.

 

 

My old house was 202m2 (minus 30ish for garage) for a 8 outlet panasonic ducted system and was $9.5k ish including the wifi module and one zone on/off switch (living areas I could turn on/off) from EES (auckland, maybe cheaper due to competition???).   Cant recall the kw for unit, but it was the size of a double fridge.  That was a 4 bedroom house with a large open planning living area (living room, family room, dining, kitchen).   this was done in about early 2014.

 

Will be doing the same to new house, once renovations are done and all the walls are up where I want them.


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  Reply # 1644684 3-Oct-2016 12:59
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reven:

 

 

 

My old house was 202m2 (minus 30ish for garage) for a 8 outlet panasonic ducted system and was $9.5k ish including the wifi module and one zone on/off switch (living areas I could turn on/off) from EES (auckland, maybe cheaper due to competition???).   Cant recall the kw for unit, but it was the size of a double fridge.  That was a 4 bedroom house with a large open planning living area (living room, family room, dining, kitchen).   this was done in about early 2014.

 

Will be doing the same to new house, once renovations are done and all the walls are up where I want them.

 

 

I would like to see how much wiring you are running for HA in your renovation!


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