heatpump questions!

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alliao

320 posts

Ultimate Geek

#208254 3-Feb-2017 09:58

hi all, I've sent email for official answers, but just wondering about your thoughts!

I've been looking at 2.5kW small efficient units of Daikin heatpumps CORA series.

And the price quoted for 2 units just pop above $5k

Now I know the indoor units are made in Australia so it's a bit cheaper over there, but it seems like they're getting the units for just under $1k AUD and with install usually $1600 rather than the $2550 I've been quoted...

Does anyone know how does Daikin operate in NZ? In terms of warranty etc, I see multiple vendors claiming to be accredited by Daikin, however they don't show up on Daikin's website of dealer networks.

So when units go wrong will Daikin honour the warranty? or is it always the case of going back to the installer, and if they go bust (do they go bust here?) then you're sore out of luck?

Any information would be most appreciated!

Jeeves

302 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1714896 3-Feb-2017 11:31

Why not use an installer that's on their website? There seems to be plenty of them so enough scope to get competitive quotes.

If something goes wrong within a "reasonable" time frame - then go back to the person you paid the money too - the installer. It's their obligation to sort it out as the CGA overpowers any warranty. They can't fob you off and say talk to Daikin.

If they've gone bust, then the CGA won't cover you, but you could then potentially chase up Daikin through a warranty claim.

alliao

320 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1714925 3-Feb-2017 12:21

Jeeves:

Why not use an installer that's on their website? There seems to be plenty of them so enough scope to get competitive quotes.

If something goes wrong within a "reasonable" time frame - then go back to the person you paid the money too - the installer. It's their obligation to sort it out as the CGA overpowers any warranty. They can't fob you off and say talk to Daikin.

If they've gone bust, then the CGA won't cover you, but you could then potentially chase up Daikin through a warranty claim.

Thanks Jeeves, I can tell from their website they're trying to avoid competition. For the entire Auckland, there're 6 (counting one up at Silverdale as well) agents only.

And the fact that so many smaller companies out there claiming to be accredited installer, and I'm not sure what it means to be one. And there're no information Daikin's website apart from those 6 dealers.

Adding to another interesting fact that Daikin's recently opened a new office in Auckland just 3 months ago, perhaps they'll start having their own installers...? All quite vague right now... I've emailed them and I can only see the email being forwarded without much reply. Will post here once I get anything concrete back from them.

sparkz25

535 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1715224 4-Feb-2017 01:55

you have to be a daikin installer to be able to purchase daikin heat pumps thats why you dont see them at noelleeming or harvey norman and so on, the warranty applies no matter what providing it has been installed by an accredited daikin installer, check out http://perfectair.co.nz/ i used to work for them and still get my heat pumps from them and have never had a problem with them or the warranty what so ever

Deke45

1 post

Wannabe Geek
Inactive user

#1716292 7-Feb-2017 06:48

Hi everyone, I'm new to the site.... I've had two heat pumps installed at my house and I found there's a big range in pricing from one manufacturer to another, the one huge comfort I got while doing research before buying them was to make sure you get one with a long history(known name brand) and a long warranty(10 years) because the lower cost units have been known to have issues with the bearings wearing out and the motor going out prematurely if they have a short warranty...you know the saying, you get what you pay for!

alliao

320 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1716399 7-Feb-2017 10:36

Deke45:

Hi everyone, I'm new to the site.... I've had two heat pumps installed at my house and I found there's a big range in pricing from one manufacturer to another, the one huge comfort I got while doing research before buying them was to make sure you get one with a long history(known name brand) and a long warranty(10 years) because the lower cost units have been known to have issues with the bearings wearing out and the motor going out prematurely if they have a short warranty...you know the saying, you get what you pay for!

say no to fearmongering sales tactic... and as Jeeves pointed out, NZ do have CGA. And compressor motors rarely go out nowadays, it's usually the indoor units electronics.... the more you know. But yeah, more researching leads to wanting to include ventilation units as well...

heavenlywild

3750 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#1716401 7-Feb-2017 10:43

2x 2.5kw units installed for just over $5k seems expensive to me.

While my experience isn't with Daikin, I have had Panasonic and Fujitsu heatpumps installed over the past few years. A 5.6kw and and 2.5kw installed would come to around $4.5k max.

Kickinbac

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1716432 7-Feb-2017 11:28

The price you were quoted does seem expensive but the price will depend on the complexity of the installation such as pipe length, safe access, electrical work etc. As always its best to get 2 - 3 quotes and see how they relate. We sell a 2.5kW for about $2000 incl GST for a simple back to back. I hate to say this but that company may be very busy and increased the price.

I work for a Daikin dealer and you have to be a Daikin dealer to sell their heat pumps. For warranty issues it's best to go back to the original installer in the first place but the warranty is by Daikin so you can call them and they will put you in touch with a company to repair it in the event the installer is no longer trading. If we have a warranty claim we sort it out with Daikin. This is the same for all brands.

Cora units are made in Thailand. Some ducted indoor units are made in Australia. Daikin equipment is made in factories all around the world, just depends on the product.

The Daikin Cora's are very good, quiet and efficient heat pumps. One of the best on the market in my opinion, maybe the best, depending on the model, when you compare all the specs between brands. I've just put one in my own house and I have access to all the leading brands and the Cora was the best value for money for my needs (efficiency, noise, wifi control, looks etc) but not the cheapest.

alliao

320 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1716520 7-Feb-2017 14:04

Kickinbac:

The price you were quoted does seem expensive but the price will depend on the complexity of the installation such as pipe length, safe access, electrical work etc. As always its best to get 2 - 3 quotes and see how they relate. We sell a 2.5kW for about $2000 incl GST for a simple back to back. I hate to say this but that company may be very busy and increased the price.

I work for a Daikin dealer and you have to be a Daikin dealer to sell their heat pumps. For warranty issues it's best to go back to the original installer in the first place but the warranty is by Daikin so you can call them and they will put you in touch with a company to repair it in the event the installer is no longer trading. If we have a warranty claim we sort it out with Daikin. This is the same for all brands.

Cora units are made in Thailand. Some ducted indoor units are made in Australia. Daikin equipment is made in factories all around the world, just depends on the product.

The Daikin Cora's are very good, quiet and efficient heat pumps. One of the best on the market in my opinion, maybe the best, depending on the model, when you compare all the specs between brands. I've just put one in my own house and I have access to all the leading brands and the Cora was the best value for money for my needs (efficiency, noise, wifi control, looks etc) but not the cheapest.

Thanks for the reply! That's what I thought as well, in terms of the price. I was just feeling a bit uneasy about the source of the units and whether Daikin NZ would honour the warranty if anything goes wrong...

I did get other quotes as well around $2k mark, that's why I thought the original $5k+ for 2 units sounds slightly excessive. But then they're ones that are listed on the website. And there're only 6 for the entire Auckland, which is not right....

If your work services the Auckland region, can you let me know their contact details?

And since you're in the industry, can you tell me about the quality of installation here? And what areas to look out for..

For example, is there a standard in holding the vacuum before inserting refrigerant? Some states in the US does this in two trips, first trip setting the vacuum and leaving it overnight as part of regulation(boosts wages too i bet).

But seeing a unit will serve a house in years rather than months perhaps that's not a bad idea.

And the insulation for the copper pipes between outside and inside, are they all original daikin or would dealers have to source their own?

I do see a lot of completely naked pipes...with bits of tapes wrapping them and calling it a day. Very scary!

Kickinbac

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1717182 8-Feb-2017 13:16

What's making you uneasy about the source of the units? I can't think of a reason Daikin wouldn't honour the warranty unless it was parallel imported or stolen or an installation issue that caused the problem. Usually if theres a problem, go back to the supplier and they sort out the warranty claim with Daikin. You shouldn't have to deal with Daikin directly in most cases unless the installer has gone out of business or are causing you a headache. At the worst case there is the Disputes Tribunal but it shouldn't have to come to that!

The general life expectation of a heat pump is 12 -15 years. There are lots of factors that come into lifespan such as the environment, how much it's used, how it's maintained etc. A heat pump is just an appliance like your fidge or stove.

The Daikin instructions say to vacuum the system for more than 10 minutes for pipe lengths up to 15 metres. Our guys generally get the pipework conencted as soon as possible and then vac the system for as long as possible while they finish off the other pieces, wire it and tidy up, approx 30 minutes and use a vacuum gauge to measure the vacuum. They then open the valves and test run the system

The installer supplies their own refrigeration pipework, it's called pair coil and is preinsulated with white insulation. It comes in 20 m coils and you use as much as you need between the indoor and outdoor unit. The pipework is concealed in plastic capping to protect the insulation and wires. There shouldn't be any visible copper but sometimes there is a little bit showing near the outdoor unit. The insulation is supposed to be UV protected but it does breakdown over time but generally it gets taped up or is covered.

Hopefully whoever does your work does a good job!

Kickinbac

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1717183 8-Feb-2017 13:16

Hopefully whoever does your work does a good job!

alliao

320 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1717192 8-Feb-2017 13:30

Kickinbac:

What's making you uneasy about the source of the units? I can't think of a reason Daikin wouldn't honour the warranty unless it was parallel imported or stolen or an installation issue that caused the problem. Usually if theres a problem, go back to the supplier and they sort out the warranty claim with Daikin. You shouldn't have to deal with Daikin directly in most cases unless the installer has gone out of business or are causing you a headache. At the worst case there is the Disputes Tribunal but it shouldn't have to come to that!

The general life expectation of a heat pump is 12 -15 years. There are lots of factors that come into lifespan such as the environment, how much it's used, how it's maintained etc. A heat pump is just an appliance like your fidge or stove.

The Daikin instructions say to vacuum the system for more than 10 minutes for pipe lengths up to 15 metres. Our guys generally get the pipework conencted as soon as possible and then vac the system for as long as possible while they finish off the other pieces, wire it and tidy up, approx 30 minutes and use a vacuum gauge to measure the vacuum. They then open the valves and test run the system

The installer supplies their own refrigeration pipework, it's called pair coil and is preinsulated with white insulation. It comes in 20 m coils and you use as much as you need between the indoor and outdoor unit. The pipework is concealed in plastic capping to protect the insulation and wires. There shouldn't be any visible copper but sometimes there is a little bit showing near the outdoor unit. The insulation is supposed to be UV protected but it does breakdown over time but generally it gets taped up or is covered.

Hopefully whoever does your work does a good job!

Thanks for the very detailed reply! I'm skeptical about some quotes as I can see the exact same unit is just under a grand in Australia, so potentially they'd be bringing parallel units over and installing them undercutting official suppliers due to quite favourable NZD/AUD exchange rates.

You guys sound like doing real proper job vacuuming it up to 30mins! Kudos.

I've had sales saying the refrigeration pipework's Daikin branded as well... which doesn't sound practical hence my skepticism.

I guess I was just spooked by a lot of things sales said which didn't make sense to me.

Thanks a lot for your time!

Kickinbac

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1717298 8-Feb-2017 17:26

Trust your gut instinct. If it don't fell right go somewhere else.

I'd be surprised if they are importing from Oz but stranger things have happened. Daikin was Australia/NZ but NZ was split away late last year to be independant.

Daikin sell a range of refrigeration tools and vac pumps etc. I haven't heard of them selling pipework. Maybe they are importing it?