Next Project: Replace lagging and leaking PVC spouting with Coloursteel

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Next Project: Replace lagging and leaking PVC spouting with Coloursteel - any tips

Willuknight

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#212710 8-Apr-2017 12:08

So I've been told Coloursteel is the same price or better, lasts longer than PVC and less prone to leaks.

Basically I just need to rip down the old stuff, replace any rotten fascias, paint them and then get someone to do the coloursteel?

Any holes in that plan?

Thanks!

Aredwood

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#1759449 8-Apr-2017 12:50

Was the pvc spouting installed properly? Biggest problem is people not using enough brackets. It always sags as a result. Then there is no allowance being made for expansion and contraction. Which causes corners to leak.

Done properly pvc spouting lasts forever. And it doesn't rust.

Sidestep

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#1759452 8-Apr-2017 13:20

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Coloursteel lasts longer? I think it depends where you are.
We're close to the ocean, and put coloursteel roofing & guttering on several buildings.

It's pretty good stuff if undamaged. The failure points were caused by the installation.

The roofs began corroding back from where the sheets were cut at the gutter overhang, and mid sheet in a couple of places where they scratched the enameling during install.
The gutters (folded on site) corroded out at the ends and where droppers were installed. Basically wherever it was bent tightly, cut and/or rivetted.

We replaced the gutters - a deep commercial profile - on two buildings at 12 years, a third at 15, and went with coloursteel again as we were assured the failure was from incorrect priming & sealing of the cut edges.
But after 10 years I can see we're going to have the same problem.

In spite of 2 coat rustproofing, reapplied every couple of years, rust has begun to appear at the cut & overlapped ends again.
In places it's bubbling and pushing out the silicone type sealer they put between the folded edges.

We're excluded from warranty cover because of how close we are to the ocean (less than 500m).
Next time I'll go with PVC. I'm told the resistance to UV & fading is much improved, and the old brittleness/cracking issues have been worked out.

DarthKermit

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#1759460 8-Apr-2017 13:55

One advantage of metal over plastic is slime won't grow on metal guttering.

neb

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#1759463 8-Apr-2017 14:00

Aredwood: Was the pvc spouting installed properly? Biggest problem is people not using enough brackets. It always sags as a result. Then there is no allowance being made for expansion and contraction. Which causes corners to leak.

Another problem is idiot installers who install either flat or even with a reverse slope, so you get semi-permanent muck sitting in your guttering. If you're getting it re-done, go up there with a spirit level and make sure the water's actually going to flow out of it.

lapimate

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#1759477 8-Apr-2017 14:59

1. PVC seems to have a lesser recommended slope requirement than steel (because water on new PVC flows with less friction.) BUT that seems to assume pristine PVC and I don't believe that pristine condition lasts long because debris flows down the gutter and the surface will get scratched during flow and during cleaning. So perhaps use the old steel recommendations for slope?

2. ColourSteel relies on intact surface coating for corrosion protection. Maintenance of the integrity during transport (I have seen new ColourSteel roofing dragged over concrete steps) and installation is a big ask; scratches cannot be rectified with ordinary (any?) means. Warranties will apply only if strict (practically impossible?) rules are followed.

robjg63

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#1759494 8-Apr-2017 15:28

Colour steel can rust of course. Every join and corner is a potential rust and water seal point. My house has colour steel that has rivets in the corners and silicon sealer over the rivets/joins and they seem to start dripping after a couple of years.

Not really sure that it should be much more durable than pvc spouting (if at all).

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

neb

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#1759503 8-Apr-2017 15:51

lapimate: ColourSteel relies on intact surface coating for corrosion protection. Maintenance of the integrity during transport (I have seen new ColourSteel roofing dragged over concrete steps) and installation is a big ask; scratches cannot be rectified with ordinary (any?) means. Warranties will apply only if strict (practically impossible?) rules are followed.

Another problem with ColourSteel is that it's going to get scratched every time you clean out your gutters.

I was actually surprised at the title of this thread, I'd never have considered steel guttering of any type, for all the reasons that people have already given in the discussion, it's just going to end up rusting away everywhere the coating has been affected.

Willuknight

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#1759618 8-Apr-2017 22:48

neb:
Aredwood: Was the pvc spouting installed properly? Biggest problem is people not using enough brackets. It always sags as a result. Then there is no allowance being made for expansion and contraction. Which causes corners to leak.
Another problem is idiot installers who install either flat or even with a reverse slope, so you get semi-permanent muck sitting in your guttering. If you're getting it re-done, go up there with a spirit level and make sure the water's actually going to flow out of it.

That's my problem at the moment, I don't know if it was installed properly or not, but I have whole sections where they don't drain properly and stay full of water.

mattwnz

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#1759622 8-Apr-2017 23:15

Willuknight:
So I've been told Coloursteel is the same price or better, lasts longer than PVC and less prone to leaks.

Basically I just need to rip down the old stuff, replace any rotten fascias, paint them and then get someone to do the coloursteel?

Any holes in that plan?

Thanks!

Who told you that? I use both pvc and paint baked on metal, and found pvc is more durable over time, mainly because of the joints. . Also there are varying qualities of painted metal products, that may not be up to the same quality as guenuine colorsteel. These days installers tend to only use silicon to seal the joints of metal gutter, so after a few years they start to leak at the joints. Whereas pvc uses a cement glue which can last a long time, but it can also eventually fail, but it won't rust at the joint like metal can. There are too many variables and installation quality can vary a lot.

mattwnz

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#1759623 8-Apr-2017 23:17

neb:
lapimate: ColourSteel relies on intact surface coating for corrosion protection. Maintenance of the integrity during transport (I have seen new ColourSteel roofing dragged over concrete steps) and installation is a big ask; scratches cannot be rectified with ordinary (any?) means. Warranties will apply only if strict (practically impossible?) rules are followed.

Another problem with ColourSteel is that it's going to get scratched every time you clean out your gutters.

I was actually surprised at the title of this thread, I'd never have considered steel guttering of any type, for all the reasons that people have already given in the discussion, it's just going to end up rusting away everywhere the coating has been affected.

If it drains properly it should last a long time. But not maintaining the gutter and leaving leaves in them can be bad. Pvc is more for people why don't keep up their home maintenace.

Willuknight

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#1759853 9-Apr-2017 16:57

I had a 6m section at the back of my porch that wasn't draining water - it would just collect in the middle.

I figured to try and figure out how complicated this whole gutter thing was, I'd try and replace the PVC myself as a learning project, and something that isn't too expensive if i mess it up.

I unclipped the old gutters and then used a chisel to pull off all the old brackets. I purchased new brackets and new gutters from bunnings, total was about $120 including galvanized screws, PVC cement, end bracket, joining bracket and 2x 3m sections.

I immediately noticed the difference between the new and old brackets, the old ones were sitting about 1cm unladen further down than the new ones - you can imagine how this would have been intensified by water or leaves in them. I might have been able to get away with just pressure washing the old gutter and putting it back up using new brackets, but I figured I'd play it safe and $60 isn't that high a price for a job which will hopefully last years upon years.

I ran a plumb line from one end to the other, highest point furthest away from the drain and doubled the gradient - I'm not sure if there's a set gradient you're supposed to use but I put the high point as close to the roof as possible and the low point the lowest point on the fascia.

All clipped in and cemented and hopefully that does the job!

If it works as easy as that, I might have a go at doing part of the rest of the house myself - though I will need to get the plumber out to ask about drainage as not all sections have a down spout :/

Does anyone know what the ideal gradient is and how I work that out?

Sidestep

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#1759861 9-Apr-2017 17:22

We managed roughly 1:600 (2.5cm drop in 15m run) because couldn't work a steeper slope. Still drains well.

Edit: Went steeper where we could on the shorter sections.

RickW

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#1759863 9-Apr-2017 17:24

Willuknight:

I had a 6m section at the back of my porch that wasn't draining water - it would just collect in the middle.

I figured to try and figure out how complicated this whole gutter thing was, I'd try and replace the PVC myself as a learning project, and something that isn't too expensive if i mess it up.

I unclipped the old gutters and then used a chisel to pull off all the old brackets. I purchased new brackets and new gutters from bunnings, total was about $120 including galvanized screws, PVC cement, end bracket, joining bracket and 2x 3m sections.

I immediately noticed the difference between the new and old brackets, the old ones were sitting about 1cm unladen further down than the new ones - you can imagine how this would have been intensified by water or leaves in them. I might have been able to get away with just pressure washing the old gutter and putting it back up using new brackets, but I figured I'd play it safe and $60 isn't that high a price for a job which will hopefully last years upon years.

I ran a plumb line from one end to the other, highest point furthest away from the drain and doubled the gradient - I'm not sure if there's a set gradient you're supposed to use but I put the high point as close to the roof as possible and the low point the lowest point on the fascia.

All clipped in and cemented and hopefully that does the job!

If it works as easy as that, I might have a go at doing part of the rest of the house myself - though I will need to get the plumber out to ask about drainage as not all sections have a down spout :/

Does anyone know what the ideal gradient is and how I work that out?

Hey Willuknight,

the minimum fall that you should aim for is 2mm/M ideally 3mm/M

lapimate

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#1759916 9-Apr-2017 20:22

Willuknight:... Does anyone know what the ideal gradient is and how I work that out?

Marley install spouting recommends 5mm per 10m, ie 0.029degree (practically indistinguishable from level for heat-sensitive-saggy PVC?). A small slope makes it easier aesthetically to conceal the roof edge which may be an appealing sales feature. Plumbing published by NZ Correspondence Institute in 1978 recommends 1 in 240 ie 0.24degree, 8 times the Marley recommendation.

(RickW's recommendation above is equivalent to 0.11-0.17degree).

RickW

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#1759921 9-Apr-2017 20:37

I should note that my recommendation is for steel gutter although I'd also run with the same for pvc. My opinion is based on running a roofing company and being a LBP.

You won't see the ends of the roof sheets an any way running with 2-3mm