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67 posts

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#220141 27-Jul-2017 15:03
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I have 4 rooms, kitchen and lounge, all with phone jack points installed with cat 6.  Yuss! I thought as the Chorus tech told me this.  Now I can turn all those phone jacks into network points and get the house easily wired up and forget about wifi.  But ... turns out they are daisy chained and this will not work for a network.  Ugh!  Why put in cat 6 and then daisy chain it!?

 

It's got me half curious now as to how easy would it be to remove the existing cabling and run cat 6 to each of the points?  What would something like this cost approximately, if getting someone in to do it?  I realise it's a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, but am looking for a ballpark figure as that will give me something to take to my minister of finance to start the negotiation process.  What are the things that need to be considered / taken into account when wiring up a network?


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5963 posts

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  #1832314 27-Jul-2017 15:07
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The difficult part is getting the cable from each point to a central networking point in the house - it really depends on how accessible the wiring would be.


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  #1832322 27-Jul-2017 15:16
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his your house concrete slab or can you get under floor I'm guessing you haven't got a dist. hub .


 
 
 
 


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  #1832327 27-Jul-2017 15:19
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It's not hard or expensive to run star wiring when you're building a house. I don't understand why people pinch pennies on this.

 

Is the house on a slab or piles? As this makes a big difference to how you need to install the wiring.


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  #1832329 27-Jul-2017 15:21
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If the floor is a slab all the cat 6 probably goes up in the wall to the ceiling then along to the next wall and down to the socket etc. So there's a good chance you can cut and join in the ceiling space to make it a star network.

 

Alternatively of there's a basement crawl space the same could well apply there.

 

 [edit spelling]


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  #1832340 27-Jul-2017 15:35
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ubergeeknz:

 

It's not hard or expensive to run star wiring when you're building a house. I don't understand why people pinch pennies on this.

 

Is the house on a slab or piles? As this makes a big difference to how you need to install the wiring.

 

 

 

 

Exactly what i encouraged my father to do on his new build, We used 400M of Cat 6 and 2 hours of the sparkies time to run it all. I then did the network cabinet and all the punchdown and fit off. Cost me about $500 in parts and a few hours.
Dad now has a central hub with all the media gear in it, TV's connected via Ethernet (We did a test Wired vs wireless and the difference is night and day, He finally understood why i pushed for it.)

You are best to run new cables under your house, Good that they used Cat 6 for the daisy chain rather than old POTS cable :)


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  #1832351 27-Jul-2017 16:02
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kryptonjohn:

 

If the floor is a slab all the cat 6 probably goes up in the wall to the ceiling then along to the next wall and down to the socket etc. So there's a good chance you can cut and join in the ceiling space to make it a star network.

 

 

 

 

No, you can't, you will need to run new cables.  Maybe you could save a little cable this way but it's just not worth it, and it will never test to cat6. But you could probably use the drops as draw wires for the new cables from the ceiling space :)


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  #1832356 27-Jul-2017 16:06
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Coil:

 

Good that they used Cat 6 for the daisy chain rather than old POTS cable :)

 

 

Not really, it's just a waste.  Probably it's just what they were carrying, rather than carry multiple types of cable.


 
 
 
 


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  #1832364 27-Jul-2017 16:16
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ubergeeknz:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

If the floor is a slab all the cat 6 probably goes up in the wall to the ceiling then along to the next wall and down to the socket etc. So there's a good chance you can cut and join in the ceiling space to make it a star network.

 

 

 

 

No, you can't, you will need to run new cables.  Maybe you could save 1 cable this way but it's just not worth it, and it will never test to cat6. But you could probably use the drops as draw wires for the new cables from the ceiling space :)

 

 

How come? Cat6 is cut and joined in patch panels anyway isn't it?

 

Might not test to cat6 but will it work at 100Mb anyway? Quite a significant saving in time and cost if it would work.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #1832369 27-Jul-2017 16:22
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kryptonjohn:

 

ubergeeknz:

 

kryptonjohn:

 

If the floor is a slab all the cat 6 probably goes up in the wall to the ceiling then along to the next wall and down to the socket etc. So there's a good chance you can cut and join in the ceiling space to make it a star network.

 

 

No, you can't, you will need to run new cables.  Maybe you could save 1 cable this way but it's just not worth it, and it will never test to cat6. But you could probably use the drops as draw wires for the new cables from the ceiling space :)

 

 

How come? Cat6 is cut and joined in patch panels anyway isn't it?

 

Might not test to cat6 but will it work at 100Mb anyway? Quite a significant saving in time and cost if it would work.

 

 

Yes it might work for 100Mb but so will a tight piece of string... anyway the joiners and the time to terminate two additional times per run will probably cost you more than just the extra 2m of cable.  Drawing cable through from the roofspace with the existing cable would not be a time consuming job.


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  #1832370 27-Jul-2017 16:23
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I have a similar issue and I've been meaning to post almost exactly the same question :-)  

 

My house has a "mix"   The "Office" where the VDSL came in has a wall plate with 3 network ports in it which have "Star" wiring to the three bedrooms.  i.e. a mini "patch panel" 

 

There are 4-5 phone jacks all through the house however these are all daisy-chained one to the other. 

 

All the cabling is running through the ceiling space which is reasonably accessible. 

 

The main point I want to get network to is the TV - which has a phone jack right now. 

 

My basic n00b questions

 

- is it easy to take off a phone jack wall plate and replace it with network port using the same wire?

 

- If I were to run a new cable from my "patch panel" to the point in the ceiling where the cable from a phone jacks comes out, could I connect the two?  Or would it be better to use the old cable to pull the new one through? 

 

The original installer used "blue" for phone and "purple" for network in the ceiling, but I think they are both at least Cat5. 

 

 

 

EDIT: And while I've been writing this, it appears the question has been answered.  Better to replace :-)

 

 


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  #1832376 27-Jul-2017 16:31
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In a former role I went to a clients new house in Botany auckland,

 

There were phone outlets and data outlets all over the house.

 

One problem, there was no cabling installed, the developer was obviously skimping on everything he could.

 

 

 

I recently went to some open homes in Papakura, Auckland.

 

UFB only area, ONT on the wall, three data inlets on the wall, no data outlets or phone outlets in the house.

 

people do some crazy things in new houses.

 

 

 

John

 

 





I know enough to be dangerous


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  #1832377 27-Jul-2017 16:35
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vyfster:

 

Why put in cat 6 and then daisy chain it!?

 

 

Do you want the simple, honest answer?

 

Because their are electricians doing this type of work who think they know it all and see no issue with this because it's how they've wired things since the invention of the telephone. They're the same people that are still using BT outlets in brand new builds even in structured cabling builds despite the fact a BT keystone jack is 5x the price of a RJ45.

 

Whether upgrading this is possible is going to depend on lots of different factors and may be far from easy.

 

 


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  #1832416 27-Jul-2017 17:47
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Each one of the following things make it easier
- Space in the roof to crawl around
- Cables running up the wall not horizontally around walls
- Nice holes through the framing, no bad angles or holes too small.
- Somewhere to put a network panel that is easy to drill down to. Typically not external walls or in internal walls within about 2 meters of an external wall (depending a lot on the particular roof).


If it is really hard, you might be able to use some of the existing wiring in a non conventional way. This is a bit rugged, only do it if you have no other options. There'll potentially be only one phone jack too if that matters to you.

If you can find one point in the middle of the daisy chain that you would be happy to use as the "hub" point, you can potentially get two 100Mb connections either direction of the hub (100Mb only needs 2 pairs). Like this [ e--e--H--e--e ]

It's far from perfect, but it'll probably be more reliable than wifi.

Or you could put a network switch at each point for a terrible daisy chain network.






Location: Dunedin

 


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  #1832442 27-Jul-2017 18:38
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sbiddle:

 

 

 

Do you want the simple, honest answer?

 

Because their are electricians doing this type of work who think they know it all and see no issue with this because it's how they've wired things since the invention of the telephone. They're the same people that are still using BT outlets in brand new builds even in structured cabling builds despite the fact a BT keystone jack is 5x the price of a RJ45.

 

Whether upgrading this is possible is going to depend on lots of different factors and may be far from easy.

 

 

When electricians ask their peers for advice they get this sort of response

 

"It's just two wires. Loop away as much as you want. Use 2 wire outlets.


http://www.telepermit.co.nz/PTC200X12.html" - July 2017

 

Old standards like that should be taken down or clearly marked as "Obsolete Reference Only" with links to later TCF documents or they'll keep doing it.

 

 


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  #1832473 27-Jul-2017 19:42
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Just create a daisy chain data network. Network switch or loop patch at each socket.




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