Auto changeover valve for twin LPG bottles

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Geektastic

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Topic # 230448 24-Feb-2018 11:16

We have a twin bottle setup with a valve that has a turning lever in the centre with an indicator that goes red when one bottle is empty.

It appears not to function well.

If one bottle is empty and one is full, flipping it to full one does not restore the gas supply. The second bottle must be replaced before it works. This seems contra to logic.

Is that how it is meant to work or is it faulty?

Also, is there an option where the changeover happens automatically rather than manually?

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Reply # 1963355 24-Feb-2018 11:45

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Assuming both bottles have their valves open all the time? i.e. both 'turned to open'?

There could be a blockage or a fault with your unit.

Eitherway you need a gas fitting plumber or contact the people who supply you with gas.

tdgeek

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Reply # 1963357 24-Feb-2018 11:48

We have one gas bottle. The gas guy said we cant have two as its too close to something. Its located outside the kitchen wall, directly under a kitchen window. If there is one there why can we not have two?

sleepy

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Reply # 1963358 24-Feb-2018 11:49

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Sounds Faulty

If both bottles are open it should just change over and show red so you know to order a new bottle.

PhantomNVD

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Reply # 1963478 24-Feb-2018 14:38

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tdgeek:
We have one gas bottle. The gas guy said we cant have two as its too close to something. Its located outside the kitchen wall, directly under a kitchen window. If there is one there why can we not have two?

Only reason must be distance. There are very strict rules about distance to openable windows and open drains. Perhaps your 1 bottle is just out of range of these on BOTH sides and putting another one in would make it too close on one side or the other?

Bung

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Reply # 1963483 24-Feb-2018 14:53

tdgeek:
We have one gas bottle. The gas guy said we cant have two as its too close to something. Its located outside the kitchen wall, directly under a kitchen window. If there is one there why can we not have two?

How far below the window? The clearances increase for more than 100kg of gas but unless you only have enough space for a 1 bottle zone 2x45s shouldn't change anything. You need to switch on the @Aredwood beacon to get LPG Man.

Mavarick

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Reply # 1963582 24-Feb-2018 18:04

I just have one bottle turned on and other off and swap over switch when one is MT, its easier that way as there does seem to be some backfill of emptier one at times from the fuller one

Geektastic

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Reply # 1963901 25-Feb-2018 15:15

sleepy:

Sounds Faulty

If both bottles are open it should just change over and show red so you know to order a new bottle.

OK. I figured it should do that (otherwise what's the point of it?!) so I will call someone tomorrow.

Thanks all.

chevrolux

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Reply # 1963926 25-Feb-2018 16:31

On this topic, has any one got a clever geek solution for knowing the switch has happen?

We've just moved to our new place which has bottles so it hasn't come up for a swap yet, but I feel like having to go and look at the bottles is just so 1990.

Would a camera need to be involved? Or is there some sort of mechanical switchy thing that could just close some contacts hooked up to an arduino?

nickb800

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Reply # 1963937 25-Feb-2018 17:01

chevrolux:

On this topic, has any one got a clever geek solution for knowing the switch has happen?

We've just moved to our new place which has bottles so it hasn't come up for a swap yet, but I feel like having to go and look at the bottles is just so 1990.

Would a camera need to be involved? Or is there some sort of mechanical switchy thing that could just close some contacts hooked up to an arduino?

I'm thinking the same, as about to move into a place with gas.

The only thing to bear in mind is that whatever solution you do it will probably fall foul of the gas rules, which prohibit anything electrical in proximity to the bottles/valves, and may stop the delivery folk from swapping your bottle. The Elgas website suggests that even UFB ETP are prohibited within a certain distance of the bottles, even though they acknowledge that they are passive and have no 'electricity' in them

Aredwood

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Reply # 1963953 25-Feb-2018 17:33

Ito Koki make change over regulators that have an inbuilt reed switch to indicate that the reserve bottle is now supplying gas.

http://www.itokoki.co.jp/english/products/product_lpg.asp

Part codes beginning with T.

The 8Kg per hour model will be suitable for most setups. Aqualine products seem to be the NZ distributor for Ito Koki. There will probably be overseas suppliers of those regulators as well.

You will need a gasfitter to install it.

gregmcc

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Reply # 1964054 25-Feb-2018 21:12

Aredwood: Ito Koki make change over regulators that have an inbuilt reed switch to indicate that the reserve bottle is now supplying gas.

http://www.itokoki.co.jp/english/products/product_lpg.asp

Part codes beginning with T.

The 8Kg per hour model will be suitable for most setups. Aqualine products seem to be the NZ distributor for Ito Koki. There will probably be overseas suppliers of those regulators as well.

You will need a gasfitter to install it.

**anything electrical** inside a certain zone around gas bottles becomes a potential ignition point and hazardous area electrical standards apply, a reed switch to determine the position the position would qualify as inside the zone.

So unless you want a potential fireball get your gas fitter AND electrician involved on this one

Fred99

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Reply # 1964064 25-Feb-2018 21:19

Bung:
tdgeek:

We have one gas bottle. The gas guy said we cant have two as its too close to something. Its located outside the kitchen wall, directly under a kitchen window. If there is one there why can we not have two?

How far below the window? The clearances increase for more than 100kg of gas but unless you only have enough space for a 1 bottle zone 2x45s shouldn't change anything. You need to switch on the @Aredwood beacon to get LPG Man.

Maybe @Aredwood can confirm, but IIRC from last time I looked at the regs, there was a 15kg cutoff for distances separating the cylinder(s) from sub-floor vents, sewerage gully traps, doorways, windows. So 1 x 9kg bottle may be okay, 2x 9kg bottles with automatic switching would exceed that limit. I guess the logic behind that was that if there's a leak, then the total volume of gas leaking is limited by bottle capacity.

We use 9kg bottles for gas cooktop only. I guess I last changed one over in about October last year, so the 9kg limit on the system isn't a particular problem.

Goosey

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Reply # 1964071 25-Feb-2018 21:24

For the benefit of doubt for others... Gas is heavier than air so a leak near a drain etc would likley go down that path so to speak if the conditions were all aligned etc.

PhantomNVD

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Reply # 1964083 25-Feb-2018 21:43

and that is why it's so dangerous... the drain/sewer pipe gets a 'puddle' of gas formed in it and then any ignition point created the immediate power release directly related to the size of the puddle.

Aredwood

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Reply # 1964109 25-Feb-2018 22:17

I'm on holiday currently using some flaky mobile data. So I'm not going to try and lookup some very large PDF files right now.

But you would sure hope that a reed switch that was installed in the regulator by the manufacturer would be safe. All of the reed switches I have seen have the switch contacts contained in a glass cylinder, which would avoid any leaking gas from being able to reach the contacts. And assuming the reed switch is connected to a Arduino GPIO pin. There would only be 2.5mW of electrical energy flowing through the switch anyway. (will check later if this is even enough energy to be able to light an air gas mixture)

Or you could just install the regulator so it is out of the clearance zone.

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