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#233329 11-Apr-2018 14:25
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Just bought an apartment, in Welly that doesn't have any built in heating.

 

Building design, bc rules and installation costs rule out a heat pump.

 

The bathroom has a heated towel rail (2kW), which will be adequate.  The remaining area to be heated is about 35m2 and is made up of open plan living and two smallish bedrooms.  It's a modern building with good insulation, double glazing and mechanical ventilation.

 

I think I need 5kW - 7kW of heating.

 

If left to my own devices I would probably slap a 2kW convection-radiant panel with a timer in the living area and rely on ventilation to move heat through the apartment.





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  #1994317 11-Apr-2018 16:08
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So does the building ventilation system positively move air into and out of your apartment? If that is the case, then any heating you use will have a portion wasted by being drawn out. Effectively you will want your heat source as far away from the outflow as possible.
Otherwise, I was going to suggest having something that moved the warm air to where you want it, rather than relying on convection. Fan forced heating is butt ugly and noisy, but effective for warming a room (as heatpump is not an option).




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  #1994322 11-Apr-2018 16:13
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Oil heater

 
 
 
 




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  #1994325 11-Apr-2018 16:17
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Dingbatt: So does the building ventilation system positively move air into and out of your apartment? If that is the case, then any heating you use will have a portion wasted by being drawn out.

 

Yes but there seems to be some sort of preheating of incoming air.  It's not cold but close to room temperature.





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  #1994328 11-Apr-2018 16:23
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MikeAqua:

 

Dingbatt: So does the building ventilation system positively move air into and out of your apartment? If that is the case, then any heating you use will have a portion wasted by being drawn out.

 

Yes but there seems to be some sort of preheating of incoming air.  It's not cold but close to room temperature.

 

 

That sounds similar to what we have in my building, the outside air gets heated slightly just to take off the chill, before being pumped into each apartment.


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  #1994329 11-Apr-2018 16:24
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MikeAqua:The bathroom has a heated towel rail (2kW), which will be adequate. 

 

 

If a 2kW towel rail is adequate - I'd hate to see a hot one!


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  #1994365 11-Apr-2018 16:45
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We had an Evantair Convector heater. Grid on top, never used fan as it rattled. 750W switch, 1250W switch or both. It worked really really well. 

 

Same design as this

 

https://www.noelleeming.co.nz/shop/household-appliances/heating-cooling/heaters/convection-heaters/delonghi-hcm2030-2000w-convector-heater/prod144390.html

 

 


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  #1994492 11-Apr-2018 22:32

Does your apartment have natural gas connected to it?





 
 
 
 




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  #1994618 12-Apr-2018 08:57
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Aredwood: Does your apartment have natural gas connected to it?

 

No gas.  Electricity is the only active heating option.

 

I'm looking into some ceiling panel heaters a friend has in their apartment but I think they are quite pricey.

 

Compactness/low proifle is a criteria as it's a small apartment.

 

 





Mike



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  #1994620 12-Apr-2018 08:59
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RunningMan:

 

If a 2kW towel rail is adequate - I'd hate to see a hot one!

 

 

I didn't phrase that very well.  It's adequate to take the chill off the bathroom.

 

We currently rent in the same building and have the same heated towel rail in our bathroom, which is about the same size.





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  #1995706 13-Apr-2018 20:00
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A quick calculation at 50w / m3 = 4200 watts of heating. Thats probably generous in an apartment as if your neighbours are heating too there will be less heat loss across those walls. A couple of small electric heaters will do nicely, just get something that has a good thermostat. I like quiet oil heaters.



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  #1997160 16-Apr-2018 15:31
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Kickinbac: A quick calculation at 50w / m3 = 4200 watts of heating. Thats probably generous in an apartment as if your neighbours are heating too there will be less heat loss across those walls. A couple of small electric heaters will do nicely, just get something that has a good thermostat. I like quiet oil heaters.

 

I want to go for something fixed. That way if we ever decide to rent the apartment it complies with the future requirement to have fixed heating. Also slim as it's a small apartment.

 

I was thinking about a couple of these.  There is an optional 7 day timer for them, which has significant appeal.





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  #1997169 16-Apr-2018 15:46
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MikeAqua:

 

 

 

Yes but there seems to be some sort of preheating of incoming air.  It's not cold but close to room temperature.

 

 

 

 

If that incoming air temperature is a lower than the temperature you want inside the room , then it sounds like whatever you do, that incoming air will likely reduce your temperature down, so you will end up wasting energy.It is a bit like leaving a window open and having a heater on .  It would be common sense for the air that comes into the room, to be heated up more, so maybe talk to the body corporate. Maybe they can hook it up with some form of heat exchanger. That is one thing that turns me off apartments, lack of control like that.


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  #1997237 16-Apr-2018 18:58
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Aredwood: Does your apartment have natural gas connected to it?

@Aredwood out of interest what are the options if there was natural gas available? And do those options need to be flued (I.e. penetration thru the wall?)?

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  #1997248 16-Apr-2018 19:20

Flued gas heaters - the Rinnai Energy Saver range. As they have flue system options that can go sideways or even down. And can be easily installed if you can place the heater against an external wall. (still have to run the gas pipe to it though). The flue outlet is just a small mushroom style outlet, as opposed to the bulky box which is the heatpump outdoor unit. So more likely to get approval from the body corporate.

And Rinnai also make gas fires that use the same flue system, if you want to go that route.

And natural gas is far cheaper than electricity. So it is another non heatpump way of getting cheaper heating compared to electric resistance heaters.

Of course there is also unflued natural gas heaters. Which are not very popular nowdays due to the moisture issue. And not many companies even sell them now.







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  #1997466 17-Apr-2018 08:49
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mattwnz:

 

MikeAqua:

 

Yes but there seems to be some sort of preheating of incoming air.  It's not cold but close to room temperature.

 

 

If that incoming air temperature is a lower than the temperature you want inside the room , then it sounds like whatever you do, that incoming air will likely reduce your temperature down, so you will end up wasting energy.It is a bit like leaving a window open and having a heater on .  It would be common sense for the air that comes into the room, to be heated up more, so maybe talk to the body corporate. Maybe they can hook it up with some form of heat exchanger. That is one thing that turns me off apartments, lack of control like that.

 

 

As I said the incoming air is heated in some way.  It's noticeably warmer than the outside air but slightly cooler than inside.

 

Each apartment has independent ventilation equipment and based on a quick inspection of what is inside the ceiling cavity I suspect a heat exchanger but I could be wrong.  Whatever is there works.  We currently rent in the same building and the apartment we rent is easy to heat.

 

Even with an air to air heat exchanger, incoming air will be slightly cooler than internal air.





Mike

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