They don't build them like they used to

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DarthKermit

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# 253005 21-Jul-2019 11:55

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Building cladding/joinery lasts just 15 years

I know the school next to my place had to have all of its buildings re-roofed a few years ago. The school caretaker told me they were only about 15 years old. A million+ dollars later, hopefully they'll get another whopping 15 year's worth.

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# 2281111 22-Jul-2019 09:35

Insane.

Journeyman

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# 2281155 22-Jul-2019 09:48

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Yeah, one fart and the whole house falls down.

Bung

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# 2281157 22-Jul-2019 09:51

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A lot of materials rely on the paint finish for protection. 15 years is probably the limit before repainting is required.

How many people regularly hose their roof down or repaint rather than reroof?

Fred99

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# 2281160 22-Jul-2019 09:54

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Many of the "leaky home" (and commercial building) problems requiring recladding etc weren't primarily the fault of the materials, but combined with poor design (ie internal gutters, no eaves etc), poor implementation (using a bit of RTV and prayer instead of a proper flashing system), and a poor decision back in the early '90s to allow use of untreated framing timber - despite advice from experts and overseas example that it would be a disaster.

I assume that some of the complaints about (aluminium) joinery relate to failure of double-glazed units - so more to do with the inevitability that seals in double glazing will eventually fail / moisture will find a way through.

Some of the things I see surprise me, the present fashion trend to use black or near black on ply (ie "Shadowclad) and other cladding systems - despite warnings from the manufacturers themselves about durability and dark colours. Plywood frypans won't last.

OTOH, when people build then flick off houses with expectation that it's a step up a ladder of unending profit, why would they care? Over 10 years you'll have saved $$$ by opting for 0.4mm coloursteel roof over 0.55mm, so long as it's still sound when you sell which it probably will be, then the extra cost of better material won't achieve a higher selling price, and after 25 years it's not your problem.

Another issue is that people are probably more time-poor and less DIY inclined. Who these days DIY repaints a weatherboard house every 8 years?

FineWine

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# 2281290 22-Jul-2019 11:49

There is no such thing as the family home any more where you build a house with a 25-30 year mortgage in a new suburb as a young freshly married couple, you plant your garden, you raise a family, you retire in it and then die in it. The kids inherit it. So why build for durability and longevity.

Kauri is out of the equation and Rimu is as well, pine is the only mass produced cheap building product these days. My Wellington Karori family home which was a post war lottery demob suburb, was all built with heart of Rimu. This 2 story house was originally coated in creosote and when dad went to paint it, in the late fifties, he had to drill holes for the 2nd story planking brackets. He burnt out the neighbours electric drill so he resorted to using the old brace & bit, leaning into it whilst up a lean-to ladder. Then used about 3 coats of a lead based paint. No OHnS back then.

But the point is, for a nearly seventy year old house, it is still standing and in pretty good nick and it has not been painted since dad last did it in the mid seventies. He sold it in the early eighties.

Of course it was not insulated at all and we are talking in the Wellington hills. It was always a very cold and slightly damp house even when dad ran the coal fire. But mum had installed very heavy drapes and all beds had about 5-6 blankets on them and you rugged up and wore jumpers. I did not experienced really warm accommodations till I first went to boarding school in Masterton.

Mmmmm so these new homes, I can not see lasting past the 30 year mark without extensive work needing to be done.

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# 2281292 22-Jul-2019 11:57

Capitalism is the key motivator. Why supply a product that lasts beyond a consumer's horizon?

Accountants step up with their spreadsheets & demonstrate how much more profit is available from selling balsa wood & toilet paper building materials that will hopefully last a few years vs solid traditional product that lasts beyond the term of the mortgage.

Besides, there's always local councils available to pick up the tab for leaky homes.

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Bung

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# 2281301 22-Jul-2019 12:38

Unless it can be recycled what is the point for a lot of houses?

There's a YouTube video by an Auckland carpenter doing a retaining wall and steps using Tanalised timber. The comments by European viewers are fixated on the "short" life (50yrs+) of this material compared with concrete completely ignoring the multi-storied apartment block close to the house. In Auckland that house's value is in the land it sits on. I'd be surprised if it wasn't redeveloped inside 10 years.

neb

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# 2281319 22-Jul-2019 13:26

Bung: The comments by European viewers are fixated on the "short" life (50yrs+) of this material compared with concrete

That's because European builders, specifically German builders, build stuff to last for eternity. And that's one of the small ones, the larger ones are even more solidly constructed.

duckDecoy

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# 2281427 22-Jul-2019 14:20

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Fred99:

Some of the things I see surprise me, the present fashion trend to use black or near black on ply (ie "Shadowclad) and other cladding systems - despite warnings from the manufacturers themselves about durability and dark colours. Plywood frypans won't last.

Well the manufacturers don't always help themselves. We built our house 16 years ago and clad it with Shadowclad, and I still have the brochure advertising it where the house has been painted entirely BLACK. How can you expect run of the mill consumers to understand the impact colour choices have when you're putting things like that in front of them in your glossy advertising.

surfisup1000

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# 2281429 22-Jul-2019 14:28

Bung: A lot of materials rely on the paint finish for protection. 15 years is probably the limit before repainting is required.

How many people regularly hose their roof down or repaint rather than reroof?

I believe builders say you must repaint your house every 5 years, on new builds.

Otherwise you void any guarantees.

FineWine

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# 2281449 22-Jul-2019 14:49

He are two articles about construction and living spaces in Germany. VERY interesting.

Find Out the Differences between American vs German Homes: it’s where the heart is.

The German Way & More - House and Home

What I found interesting was when I first went to Germany/Austria I came across those 'shallow shelved' toilets and they always had a shallow layer of water in them that DID SPLASH up and yet apparently this is to prevent splash back. Also some of my accommodations did feel quite stuffy though very toasty.

Secondly, I can appreciate the authors comment about requiring 'jack hammers' to hang anything on the walls. I lived in Sydney and Melbourne for 30 years and all my accommodations were all double brick, like most of their builds are. I returned to NZ with a jar full of mortice/concrete drill bits and jars of different sized wall plugs and of course NO Roberston screwdrivers (square screwdrivers) because Aussies love Phillips screwdrivers.

So different climates = different constructions techniques.

Though one of the saddest construction stories where everybody did not ask the locals, was when we first moved to Aussie during the Bob Hawke premiership. We were watching a current affairs program where the reporter was saying that the government had built, at great expense, accommodations for a local aborigine tribe in Northern Queensland but the minister in charge was complaining they did not live in them but instead were sleeping under the trees and cooking out in the open. WHY! because the government had built a concrete pad with corrugated iron walls and roof, with a small air gab between pad and wall and roof and wall. One water tap in centre of village only. The minister was so proud that he had provided homes for the aborigines. IDIOT.

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Disrespective

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# 2281499 22-Jul-2019 15:09

This isn't exactly new. The building code clause B2 has set out the minimum warranty terms since at least 28 February 1998 (that's the issue date on my copy of the clause). See Figure 1 on page 16.

Essentially if the material is not structural, is easy to replace and easy to spot that it's failed, nor required to satisfy any other clause (eg E2 External Moisture), then its durability requirement can be as low as 5 years. That said i've never liked the idea of windows only having a 5 year warranty. They are a rather critical component of complying with E2...

I am looking forward to the review on the building act. It's long overdue and I hope it helps to set a higher bar for the building industry. My fear is that the govt (this one or the next) doesn't have a plan in place to combat the inevitable increase in construction costs that come from a forced change to the industry.

Batman

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# 2281543 22-Jul-2019 15:17

I have seen 10 year old houses built with cement board cladding, and others with galvanized roof pieces as cladding. As in timber frame, building paper, cement board! OMG

These are the ones that are probably ones designed for 15 years.

I can confirm this 15 year spec as my mate is a quantity surveyor.

I pay very careful attention to the cladding. Bricks or plaster over brick/cement blocks I think will last a lot longer lol.

Question is - how long does treated weatherboard last ... they are all made of different wood material - gives me a headache.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

Disrespective

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# 2281549 22-Jul-2019 15:32

Batman:

Question is - how long does treated weatherboard last ... they are all made of different wood material - gives me a headache.

All our modern radiata pine is a low density, fast growing timber with very little sap. This leads to a soft timber that is more prone to rot, regardless of boron/copper/arsenic etc treatment. Compared to the slower growing species with higher sap content found in older houses (<1960's) it's a substandard product but is also cheaper and faster to produce. Sure treating the timber helps it last, but it's not exactly a cure-all.

neb

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# 2281550 22-Jul-2019 15:32

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FineWine:
What I found interesting was when I first went to Germany/Austria I came across those 'shallow shelved' toilets and they always had a shallow layer of water in them that DID SPLASH up and yet apparently this is to prevent splash back. Also some of my accommodations did feel quite stuffy though very toasty.

Ugh, those things are awful, they also exist in the Netherlands and close-by countries. For those who haven't experienced them before, they have a large shelf on which your deposits sit so you can admire them before (hopefully) flushing them away down the exit towards the front of the toilet, assuming the water doesn't just swirl around them. Totally awful design, luckily they've been phased out more and more post-1980s, I haven't seen them much in newer/renovated homes.

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