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326 posts

Ultimate Geek

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# 254350 8-Aug-2019 10:54
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Hi

 

I need to install a twin electrical outlet on the patio wall as per photo shown as an example. ( ignore yellow line)

 

This will be to power a small pump for the pond and water feature (to be installed),  and also to power garden tools on the odd occasion.

 

I have looked at solar but have chosen to go for mains power.

 

1  There is a twin socket on the other side of the wall/ lounge interior .  Can a sparky drill through and install one outside  tapping off from the inside socket

 

2  The area is sheltered but will get the occasional rain spray, so I have chosen an outdoor twin socket.  Any brands that you can recommend. Ones with a flap are large.

 

3   Do I need an RCD.  There are 2 on the main distribution panel, so can I rely on them.

 

4  Any submersible LED lights that someone can recommend from personal experience?

 

5  Is it worthwhile having an ON/OFF switch on the inside so that I can switch off the pump and pond lights without going out to the patio.

 

 

 

I do know that if you need to run mains power outdoors you need to bury it to a min depth of 60cm and need a warning tape. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

I am planning to bury the cable in conduit that runs from the twin socket to the pond area terminated in a small multibox.  This will be in a sealed weather proof box hidden amongst the 

 

pond rocks and trees.  This will enable me to plug in the pond pump and LED lights into this box.  So from a servicing point, makes it easier just to unplug device in question

 

Sorry this post is long and thanks for your feedback

 

EDIT :  ignore the yellow line as I initially thought I need to run a separate feed to its own breaker at the distribution panel.

 

 

 

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929 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2292195 8-Aug-2019 11:22
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1. Yes.
If there's already an RCD on that circuit a plain socket can be used.
If there's no RCD you can use a socket that includes an RCD.
We use pdl outdoor range for this at work. There may be other brands but the pdl is modular so you can get as the sockets and switches you want.
A double socket is not cheap at around 200 but they are decent quality.

32 posts

Geek
Inactive user


  # 2294135 11-Aug-2019 13:21
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How about one of these https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-weatherproof-double-power-point-white/p/247750

 

I installed the single version. It's had a lot of rain thrown at it and still performing as expected.  Individually switched too, which is handy at times. If you're particularly concerned about the weather tightness you can always put a smear of silicon around the joins. 

 

As for installation, I used a heavy-duty external cord, drilled a hole through the floor, cut the cord to length, and then connected it to the power point. So in addition to the switch at the external power point, I also have a switch at the internal power socket. 

 

Not sure how legal this is - but it works good.


 
 
 
 


189 posts

Master Geek


  # 2294148 11-Aug-2019 14:11
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stmoloud:

 

Not sure how legal this is

 

 

 

 

..not at all?


32 posts

Geek
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  # 2294178 11-Aug-2019 15:15
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MattR:

 

stmoloud:

 

Not sure how legal this is

 

 

 

 

..not at all?

 

 

Not sure. If I consult a sparky what's to stop them saying DIY is illegal?  Therefore blowing out a $50 job to 10x as much. But I will probably rely upon this

 

"If you are the owner of a domestic electrical installation that is for your own private use, you can do your own electrical wiring work. If you not have an appropriate electrical qualification, and you are planning to carry out electrical wiring work, you are required by law to do the work “in a workmanlike manner”, in accordance with this Code, without payment, reward or koha. Only a licensed electrical worker can carry out work on another person’s home or do work for payment, reward or koha. https://worksafe.govt.nz/laws-and-regulations/standards/electricity-standards-and-codes-of-practice/


2320 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2294183 11-Aug-2019 15:31
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Probably voids your house insurance as well.


929 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294230 11-Aug-2019 16:30
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stmoloud:

MattR:


stmoloud:


Not sure how legal this is



 


..not at all?



Not sure. If I consult a sparky what's to stop them saying DIY is illegal?  Therefore blowing out a $50 job to 10x as much. But I will probably rely upon this


"If you are the owner of a domestic electrical installation that is for your own private use, you can do your own electrical wiring work. If you not have an appropriate electrical qualification, and you are planning to carry out electrical wiring work, you are required by law to do the work “in a workmanlike manner”, in accordance with this Code, without payment, reward or koha. Only a licensed electrical worker can carry out work on another person’s home or do work for payment, reward or koha. https://worksafe.govt.nz/laws-and-regulations/standards/electricity-standards-and-codes-of-practice/


You have left out a very important detail for the DIY homeowner.
A homeowner can run new cabling but cannot connect it to the existing wiring.
That's the opportunity for the professional to come in and check things are safe, connect up and sign off.
Doesn't matter if the professional costs 5 or 500, until it's signed off its dodgy DIY wiring..

439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294265 11-Aug-2019 17:30
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stmoloud:

 

How about one of these https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/goldair-weatherproof-double-power-point-white/p/247750

 

I installed the single version. It's had a lot of rain thrown at it and still performing as expected.  Individually switched too, which is handy at times. If you're particularly concerned about the weather tightness you can always put a smear of silicon around the joins. 

 

As for installation, I used a heavy-duty external cord, drilled a hole through the floor, cut the cord to length, and then connected it to the power point. So in addition to the switch at the external power point, I also have a switch at the internal power socket. 

 

Not sure how legal this is - but it works good.

 

 

FYI Using a flex lead inside a wall is illegal.


 
 
 
 


439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294266 11-Aug-2019 17:31
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elpenguino:
stmoloud:

 

MattR:

 

 

 

stmoloud:

 

 

 

Not sure how legal this is

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

..not at all?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure. If I consult a sparky what's to stop them saying DIY is illegal?  Therefore blowing out a $50 job to 10x as much. But I will probably rely upon this

 

 

 

"If you are the owner of a domestic electrical installation that is for your own private use, you can do your own electrical wiring work. If you not have an appropriate electrical qualification, and you are planning to carry out electrical wiring work, you are required by law to do the work “in a workmanlike manner”, in accordance with this Code, without payment, reward or koha. Only a licensed electrical worker can carry out work on another person’s home or do work for payment, reward or koha. https://worksafe.govt.nz/laws-and-regulations/standards/electricity-standards-and-codes-of-practice/

 


You have left out a very important detail for the DIY homeowner.
A homeowner can run new cabling but cannot connect it to the existing wiring.
That's the opportunity for the professional to come in and check things are safe, connect up and sign off.
Doesn't matter if the professional costs 5 or 500, until it's signed off its dodgy DIY wiring..

 

 

 

To reiterate the person signing off this work must be an electrical inspector. And they will want to be able to pull everything apart and have a look at every aspect including the run between points.

 

(Don't be surprised if you have a really hard time finding one willing to sign it off. It's probably cheaper to use a licensed electrician).


1716 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2294292 11-Aug-2019 18:52
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snnet:

 

 

 

FYI Using a flex lead inside a wall is illegal.

 

 

 

 

Not quite, in a domestic installation blue cannot be used as the neutral wire, most flexible leads (not all!) have the neutral as blue, some have the neutral as black.

 

 

 

An electrician cannot certify homeowners work only an electrical inspector can. A homeowner is not allowed to liven up the new wiring, although the homeowner is allowed to run the cable from point A to point B.

 

 

 

Like others have pointed out, you will have a difficult time finding an inspector who will certify a homeowners work, it will work out quicker and cheaper to simply get your electrician to do the work.

 

 


439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294299 11-Aug-2019 18:56
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gregmcc:

 

snnet:

 

 

 

FYI Using a flex lead inside a wall is illegal.

 

 

 

 

Not quite, in a domestic installation blue cannot be used as the neutral wire, most flexible leads (not all!) have the neutral as blue, some have the neutral as black.

 

 

 

An electrician cannot certify homeowners work only an electrical inspector can. A homeowner is not allowed to liven up the new wiring, although the homeowner is allowed to run the cable from point A to point B.

 

 

 

Like others have pointed out, you will have a difficult time finding an inspector who will certify a homeowners work, it will work out quicker and cheaper to simply get your electrician to do the work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was meaning an actual flex lead like from a power lead picked up in a store or even flex cable - not supposed to use that in internal wall cavities unless it's attached to an appliance


1716 posts

Uber Geek

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  # 2294300 11-Aug-2019 18:58
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snnet:

 

gregmcc:

 

snnet:

 

 

 

FYI Using a flex lead inside a wall is illegal.

 

 

 

 

Not quite, in a domestic installation blue cannot be used as the neutral wire, most flexible leads (not all!) have the neutral as blue, some have the neutral as black.

 

 

 

An electrician cannot certify homeowners work only an electrical inspector can. A homeowner is not allowed to liven up the new wiring, although the homeowner is allowed to run the cable from point A to point B.

 

 

 

Like others have pointed out, you will have a difficult time finding an inspector who will certify a homeowners work, it will work out quicker and cheaper to simply get your electrician to do the work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was meaning an actual flex lead like from a power lead picked up in a store or even flex cable - not supposed to use that in internal wall cavities unless it's attached to an appliance

 

 

An actual flex lead just like you are talking about CAN be used providing the neutral in the said lead id black


439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294301 11-Aug-2019 19:01
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Really? I've been constantly told it is totally unacceptable

 

Main reason being if someone uses a white or black flex lead for example, along comes Mr. UHF/Satellite man, finds a nice round cable about the right size of RG59/RG6, cut, boom. 

 

I've never bothered to look it up in AS/NZS3000 or any of the other standards mind you. Perhaps just frowned upon?


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Uber Geek

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  # 2294305 11-Aug-2019 19:05
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snnet:

 

Really? I've been constantly told it is totally unacceptable

 

Main reason being if someone uses a white or black flex lead for example, along comes Mr. UHF/Satellite man, finds a nice round cable about the right size of RG59/RG6, cut, boom. 

 

I've never bothered to look it up in AS/NZS3000 or any of the other standards mind you. Perhaps just frowned upon?

 

 

 

 

The old electrical regs specifically excluded flexible wiring in an installation, AS/NZS3000 doesn't

 

 


439 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 2294306 11-Aug-2019 19:07
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gregmcc:

 

snnet:

 

Really? I've been constantly told it is totally unacceptable

 

Main reason being if someone uses a white or black flex lead for example, along comes Mr. UHF/Satellite man, finds a nice round cable about the right size of RG59/RG6, cut, boom. 

 

I've never bothered to look it up in AS/NZS3000 or any of the other standards mind you. Perhaps just frowned upon?

 

 

 

 

The old electrical regs specifically excluded flexible wiring in an installation, AS/NZS3000 doesn't

 

 

 

 

Must've come from some old buggers :D


32 posts

Geek
Inactive user


  # 2294426 11-Aug-2019 21:24
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I have a warrant electrical fitness "issued in accordance with regulation 78(2) and 78(5)(a) of the Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010.

 

I did all the electrical work myself and I assure you it took no more than 10 minutes for the electrician inspector to certify the installation. 

 

It is quite allowable within the rules for a homeowner to connect a plug to a power lead.

 

And a power lead going through a hole in a floor is not actually going into a contained space as it would be if inside a wall

 

 

 

 


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