2019 Recommend a heat pump brand

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timmmay

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#259742 18-Oct-2019 20:53

TLDR

What brand of heat pump do you have experience with and recommend for a combined kitchen / dining / secondary living area?

Longer

We need a replacement heat pump, our 11 year old Daikin is being a bit erratic and at that age isn't worth even having investigated. I like the Daikin much better than the loud 5 year old Fujitsu Nocria I have, it's quieter and just seems better.

The room to heat is a kitchen / dining / second living area and is 8 x 4 x 2.8m. It's fully insulated and double glazed but has quite a few windows, but in summer gets lots of sun and reaches 35 degrees easy. Calculators all say I need about 5kw - current unit is 7kw and is overkill.

What brands of heat pump are good can people personally recommend? Key requirements:

Not too loud is good, but we don't have a TV in there so super quiet isn't critical.
The room is quite wide, so the ability to throw air well to the left and right is important.
It would be good if it had WiFi control with a 7 day timer, or be compatible with my cheap Broadlink remote timer thingy.

I'll have a firm recommend a heat pump, but I'd like the experience of people who've lived with them as well.

RunningMan

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#2340380 18-Oct-2019 21:04

Sorry, a bit OT, but how do you find having a heat pump in the kitchen area? Does it suck in cooking fumes and need cleaning etc?

networkn

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#2340393 18-Oct-2019 21:41

I have Panasonics, Daikins and Mitsubishi's in my home. None in that living area though. I'd happily buy any of those brands again and wouldn't touch Fujitsu with a 50 foot barge pole.

timmmay

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#2340399 18-Oct-2019 21:54

RunningMan:

Sorry, a bit OT, but how do you find having a heat pump in the kitchen area? Does it suck in cooking fumes and need cleaning etc?

We have a good extractor over the stove, plus a ventilation system that runs 2-4 hours a day. The heat pump gets cleaned every six months but it's all just dust, nothing like the crud that builds up in the extractor.

networkn:

I have Panasonics, Daikins and Mitsubishi's in my home. None in that living area though. I'd happily buy any of those brands again and wouldn't touch Fujitsu with a 50 foot barge pole.

Great, thanks.

Geektastic

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#2340407 18-Oct-2019 23:10

Fujitsu.

4 of them installed in about 2007/8 and at least one run almost every day of the year.

No problems with any of them aside from one that had a fan bearing go that was replaced under warranty in a 30 minute visit.

mattwnz

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#2340415 19-Oct-2019 00:12

Mitsubishi seems to work well and quiet. The wifi things is ok. Compatible with Alexa and Google home as well. Had a few occasions where it lost connection though.

Handle9

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#2340442 19-Oct-2019 04:19

11 years isn't that old for a heat pump. I'd at least get them serviced / regassed. You would likely be able to get an installer to offset the service call out against a replacement pump if it was required.

It's going to cost you a lot of efficiency gains to offset against a whole new unit.

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timmmay

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#2340449 19-Oct-2019 06:35

Handle9: 11 years isn't that old for a heat pump. I'd at least get them serviced / regassed. You would likely be able to get an installer to offset the service call out against a replacement pump if it was required.

It's going to cost you a lot of efficiency gains to offset against a whole new unit.

I'm with you on the saving money part, but circumstances suggest that a new unit may be the best option right now. We use this heat pump virtually every day, summer or winter, and not having it available would be quite annoying, especially if it failed middle of summer or winter. Lead times for heat pump installers can be weeks. It's worth us having a new model for peace of mind. This heat pump could also be used to heat the whole house if the other one failed, slowly, by pushing warm air through a doorway down into the rest of the house. Though we have a few fan heaters and oil heaters around as well.

The installation company I talked to, who serviced it recently, said based on what I said it's more likely to be a circuit board which is $1,000 plus than a simple fix. That could be wrong of course, I was only talking to reception who asked a technician one question. Add in that the heat pump was moved during it's life and that for the past couple of years it's been making slightly odd noises and I just don't think it's worth potentially hundreds of dollars for diagnostic work that I'm pretty sure would be thrown away not credited. Their sales guy is coming out Monday, so I'll ask them their opinion too.

11 years might not be as long as they could last, but we work it hard and the cost of about $300 a year is fine.

The heat pump has actually started working a little better. Yesterday it main fins weren't opening up properly, even after I turned the outdoor unit off, and it wasn't producing much heat no matter what temperature it was set to. Today the fins are pointing the right way and it's producing more heat. So maybe it'd work for a while longer, but we'd rather have a reliable unit.

zyo

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#2340451 19-Oct-2019 07:40

I wish Gree could have more footing in AU/NZ. They are actually a very affordable/reliable brand (you don't get to be the world's largest manufacturer just by being cheap)
But their lack of presence means warranty etc is going to be questionable compare to the established Japanese brands

Air-cons are terribly overpriced in NZ.

Handle9

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#2340452 19-Oct-2019 07:44

timmmay:

Handle9: 11 years isn't that old for a heat pump. I'd at least get them serviced / regassed. You would likely be able to get an installer to offset the service call out against a replacement pump if it was required.

It's going to cost you a lot of efficiency gains to offset against a whole new unit.

I'm with you on the saving money part, but circumstances suggest that a new unit may be the best option right now. We use this heat pump virtually every day, summer or winter, and not having it available would be quite annoying, especially if it failed middle of summer or winter. Lead times for heat pump installers can be weeks. It's worth us having a new model for peace of mind. This heat pump could also be used to heat the whole house if the other one failed, slowly, by pushing warm air through a doorway down into the rest of the house. Though we have a few fan heaters and oil heaters around as well.

The installation company I talked to, who serviced it recently, said based on what I said it's more likely to be a circuit board which is $1,000 plus than a simple fix. That could be wrong of course, I was only talking to reception who asked a technician one question. Add in that the heat pump was moved during it's life and that for the past couple of years it's been making slightly odd noises and I just don't think it's worth potentially hundreds of dollars for diagnostic work that I'm pretty sure would be thrown away not credited. Their sales guy is coming out Monday, so I'll ask them their opinion too.

11 years might not be as long as they could last, but we work it hard and the cost of about $300 a year is fine.

The heat pump has actually started working a little better. Yesterday it main fins weren't opening up properly, even after I turned the outdoor unit off, and it wasn't producing much heat no matter what temperature it was set to. Today the fins are pointing the right way and it's producing more heat. So maybe it'd work for a while longer, but we'd rather have a reliable unit.

That's a little more information than you gave earlier - it makes much more sense now. I'd still ask if they can get someone to come out for a quick check and also quote on a new unit if required. They may say no but it'd be worth a try.

Handle9

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#2340454 19-Oct-2019 07:53

zyo: I wish Gree could have more footing in AU/NZ. They are actually a very affordable/reliable brand (you don't get to be the world's largest manufacturer just by being cheap)
But their lack of presence means warranty etc is going to be questionable compare to the established Japanese brands

Air-cons are terribly overpriced in NZ.

Gree have the same agent as MHI (Realcold) so warranty shouldn't be a huge problem.

It's a fairly unusual market in NZ - internationaly mostly aircon is for cooling. In NZ it is predominantly a heating market so it's a little different as well as a tiny market size etc which influences the market price.

zyo

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#2340457 19-Oct-2019 08:11

Handle9:
zyo: I wish Gree could have more footing in AU/NZ. They are actually a very affordable/reliable brand (you don't get to be the world's largest manufacturer just by being cheap)
But their lack of presence means warranty etc is going to be questionable compare to the established Japanese brands

Air-cons are terribly overpriced in NZ.

Gree have the same agent as MHI (Realcold) so warranty shouldn't be a huge problem.

It's a fairly unusual market in NZ - internationaly mostly aircon is for cooling. In NZ it is predominantly a heating market so it's a little different as well as a tiny market size etc which influences the market price.

Do you know what their warranty is?
As far as I know all Gree's models (international or Chinese domestic) are hot n cold.

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timmmay

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#2340620 19-Oct-2019 15:17

You can buy heat pumps from hardware stores, M10 sells Hitachi for example, about $1600 for a 5kw unit from memory. The trick then is getting someone who will install it. Then if something goes wrong you have to argue with the installer and the supplier. Because of that we tend to go for a company that supplies and fits. I did find one place putting in a Daikin 5kw unit for about $2800 on a back to back install, I asked them for a price for an upgrade that's not quite back to back and they didn't reply (yet).

networkn

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#2340622 19-Oct-2019 15:19

gree are 6 years. They are cheap and not as quiet as some other brands but rate highly for reliability from memory.

bfginger

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#2340851 19-Oct-2019 23:02

Personal experience only counts for so much as there are different models and lines within the same brand and they change periodically too. Mitsubishi Electrics may be the highest rated by cliental despite their splits generally having terrible specifications, because people buy them who are easily led by advertising.

Panasonic, Daikin, Mitsubishi Electric and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries all have good build quality. Mitsubishi HI is probably the most reliable although parts sourcing may be slower than other brands as they are rare in New Zealand.

Daikin's 4.6/5.4kW Cora and Panasonic's 4.2/5.1kW VKR units aren't very efficient so in both cases you'd be better off with the mildly more expensive next size up. Mitsubishi HI skipped that size bracket over with the Avanti Plus. Mitsubishi Electric's Ecocore is not worth considering.

Comparing the FTXM50RVMZ, CS/CU-Z50VKR and SRK50ZSXA-W there are advantages and disadvantages to the different models. The Daikin has 0.5c thermostat increments, is probably the best in frosty weather and is the quietest at full power. The Panasonic has the most powerful internal fan and probably has the best filter but has the largest internal unit. The MHI is the quietest at low power inside and out and can ramp down its heating lower but it isn't as efficient at cooling.

https://www.daikin.co.nz/our-product-range/split-system-heat-pumps/cora#tech-specs

https://www.panasonicaircon.co.nz/range/highwall/VKR-Series/cscu-z50vkr

https://nz.mhiaa.com.au/products/model/split-system-heat-pump-avanti-plus-srk50zsxa-w/

There are a couple of other colour variants of the Avanti Plus but I'm not sure if they're available in New Zealand.

11 years isn't that old for a heat pump. I'd at least get them serviced / regassed. You would likely be able to get an installer to offset the service call out against a replacement pump if it was required.

It's going to cost you a lot of efficiency gains to offset against a whole new unit.

It depends on the efficiency of model and what went wrong. Daikins from around that time had a flaw in the fuse which meant when the fan motor blows it takes out all the electronics in the external units. If you have a Daikin split of that era it's considered worthwhile to pre-emptively replace the cheap fan motor instead of risking it blowing the whole unit if it dies or at least that's what Australian web posters insist.

You can buy heat pumps from hardware stores, M10 sells Hitachi for example, about $1600 for a 5kw unit from memory.

Electrical supplies wholesalers supply heat pumps too. It looks like Temperzone is importing better Hitachi units now but the outdoor acoustic specifications aren't great. The extra year's warranty on the Hitachi's is good.

I did find one place putting in a Daikin 5kw unit for about $2800 on a back to back install, I asked them for a price for an upgrade that's not quite back to back and they didn't reply (yet).

Try asking for a quote from a place that sells only Daikins. I don't think the brand is doing well in New Zealand so some places are giving more competitive pricing than that. I guess that quote was for a Cora? Daikin's other single split lines have weak specifications except for the overpriced US7.

The room to heat is a kitchen / dining / second living area and is 8 x 4 x 2.8m. It's fully insulated and double glazed but has quite a few windows, but in summer gets lots of sun and reaches 35 degrees easy. Calculators all say I need about 5kw - current unit is 7kw and is overkill.

If there is such massive overheating I'd look at external awning shades for the windows or adding a low e film to reduce heat intake. A heat pump shouldn't have to fight against direct sunlight entering the room.

Kickinbac

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#2341096 20-Oct-2019 19:10

timmmay:
You can buy heat pumps from hardware stores, M10 sells Hitachi for example, about $1600 for a 5kw unit from memory. The trick then is getting someone who will install it. Then if something goes wrong you have to argue with the installer and the supplier. Because of that we tend to go for a company that supplies and fits. I did find one place putting in a Daikin 5kw unit for about $2800 on a back to back install, I asked them for a price for an upgrade that's not quite back to back and they didn't reply (yet).

You should be able to reuse the pipes and wiring saving some install cost. A 11 year old heat pump should be using r410a. Most heat pumps now use r32 which is compatible but need to check pipe sizes are the same.
A general rule of thumb is a heat pump has a life 12-15 years. Some get less some get more. Depends on all sorts like how its looked after. A unit in a marine area generally has a shorter life span.
If your heat pump is over 10 years and having issues, its probably best to replace it, you will get a 5 year warranty and more efficient unit.