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#267877 16-Feb-2020 01:42
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Hi, I’m proposing to build an infinity edged pool in my upcoming new build home. However, new regulations state that I will need to install a barrier (glass) along the non-infinity edges. I am perfectly fine with installing glass barriers to the left and right hand sides of my pool, but would certainly prefer NOT to have to install glass panelling as a barrier to entry lengthwise on the non-infinity edge/entry to pool.

I am proposing to use one wall of the house as a barrier to entry into the immediate pool area. This barrier will contain 2 x 3 leafed sliding doors in FFS formation. The sliding leaves will both be restricted to 950mm openings, will self close and self latch. There will be a manual release at least 1500mm from floor level to release the self latch to reopen the ranch slider. The door will also be fitted with an audible alarm. There will be no possible way a child 5 yrs or under will be able to open the doors. I am proposing entry to the pool area from my lounge and though the barriers described above.

The above is what is also deemed an ‘’Acceptable Solution’, but reading many determinations relating to building code F9 - Restricting access to residential pools, I have yet to have seen one approved.

Therefore, my question is, is there anybody out there who has come up with an alternative solution to F9 - restricting access to residential pools doing similar to what I’m proposing above???

Essentially, I am wanting to open my self closing ranch slider, onto the immediate pool area and enter my pool (without having to cross another glass barrier to gain entry to my pool). See following rough image of what I’m proposing.

Any thoughts, help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Kev

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  #2421628 16-Feb-2020 07:10
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@Kevvynz you forgot the image




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  #2421632 16-Feb-2020 08:02
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Oops. Very new to this.

See following - I hope?




 
 
 
 


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  #2421635 16-Feb-2020 08:23
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When I lived in Kapiti we had exactly the set up you are proposing wrt access from the lounge direct to the pool and the council were happy with compliance. Suggest you contact your council's pool compliance people and ask the questions direct before you have to explore other options.




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  #2421760 16-Feb-2020 11:20
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Thx very much for that. Do you mind if I ask what year that was?

There has been an amendment to the building act in 2016 which has changed things up - alot.

We have checked with Far North District Council who have said that although the pool will fit the acceptable solution criteria, we still won’t comply?! Go figure. Typical council.

However, the acceptable solution we’re proposing is only one solution and alternative solutions are able to be proposed. I’m really crossing fingers somehow out there has managed to come up with an alternative solution?

I’m trying anything and everything possible to try and get around this (including signing up to Geekzone) so as to not have to construct a really ugly barrier - when the lockable, self latchable sliding doors should suffice.

Thx for yr help :)

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  #2421773 16-Feb-2020 11:54
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The last inspection before we moved to the Wairarapa was early 2017. The inspector we had was very rigorous and I had to reposition an external fence but absolutely no issues with the access through the self-latching screens at the lounge.


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  #2421788 16-Feb-2020 12:31
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The real risk is when the doors are open. Are you saying when its a hot sunny day those doors will always be closed?

 

Have you actually had an informal sit down with the local council planners? (if you take your drawings and explain in full detail.....

 

 

 

Ive seen an instance where there were multiple entry points to a 'pool' room, which included 2 sides wrapped with bi folds (other 2 sides were the house with entry off lounge and guest room). 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2421839 16-Feb-2020 15:23
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Back when my pool was usable, I had one of the unwanted, unasked for but they still bill for it council inspections, and suddenly the hooks to hold my doors open were not acceptable. I had to remove them so that the closer could close the doors. OHFFS I thought, and did that anyway. When the guy came back I had the doors open with a big concrete cinderblock holding one open, and a potted plant holding the other one open. Apparently that was acceptable but a hook was not.

 

I'm going to have to redo it all before I can fill the pool up again, with all the council meddling that involves now since its a building concent thing which lets them line their pockets off poor pool owners. From what I have been told I will have to put a new fence in since my side area is too big, and put proper fence around another part since they are not happy with shadecloth as a fence anymore since it "might get cut"





Richard rich.ms

 
 
 
 




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  #2421894 16-Feb-2020 18:55
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@goosey.....thx for your comment.

yup, absolutely agree that the issue is if the doors remain open [insert Reverend Lovejoys wife’s voice from The Simpson’s - “won’t somebody think about the children” - haha]. However, we’re trying to come up with a solution which is safe and trying to construct as per F9/Acceptable Soltuion, or find somebody who has constructed a pool (similar to what we’re proposing) using an alternative solution to prevent having to place yet another glass barrier in place.

Haven’t sat down with council person as yet....we’ve just been told that they’ve read ‘determinations’ and our doors (as they’re wider than 1000mm) aren’t going to comply. Hmmmmmmmmm

@richms - have council determined that because your pool isn’t up to current ‘safety’ standards that you’re no longer able to use your pool?






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  #2421899 16-Feb-2020 19:12
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richms:

 

Back when my pool was usable, I had one of the unwanted, unasked for but they still bill for it council inspections, and suddenly the hooks to hold my doors open were not acceptable. I had to remove them so that the closer could close the doors. OHFFS I thought, and did that anyway. When the guy came back I had the doors open with a big concrete cinderblock holding one open, and a potted plant holding the other one open. Apparently that was acceptable but a hook was not.

 

I'm going to have to redo it all before I can fill the pool up again, with all the council meddling that involves now since its a building concent thing which lets them line their pockets off poor pool owners. From what I have been told I will have to put a new fence in since my side area is too big, and put proper fence around another part since they are not happy with shadecloth as a fence anymore since it "might get cut"

 

 

Have heard of these random "spot checks" quite a bit - apparently totally illegal on the councils part, especially if they demand immediate payment


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  #2421961 16-Feb-2020 20:50
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would it not just be easier to make those doors etc inside the pool area fixed glass? and just enter from either side?


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  #2421993 16-Feb-2020 21:36
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@richms - have council determined that because your pool isn’t up to current ‘safety’ standards that you’re no longer able to use your pool?


 

No, its been empty for too long that they have recoreded it as not in use or something so it needs a reinspect before I can fill it. Well thats according to them. I am yet to pay a lawyer to find out what the rules actually are.

 

Im also annoyed that they present themselves as being able to inspect internal access to the pool on those inspections when infact they do not have the right to do that, theyre requesting it.





Richard rich.ms

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  #2422225 17-Feb-2020 09:44
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Kevvynz: Thx very much for that. Do you mind if I ask what year that was?

There has been an amendment to the building act in 2016 which has changed things up - alot.

We have checked with Far North District Council who have said that although the pool will fit the acceptable solution criteria, we still won’t comply?! Go figure. Typical council.

However, the acceptable solution we’re proposing is only one solution and alternative solutions are able to be proposed. I’m really crossing fingers somehow out there has managed to come up with an alternative solution?

I’m trying anything and everything possible to try and get around this (including signing up to Geekzone) so as to not have to construct a really ugly barrier - when the lockable, self latchable sliding doors should suffice.

Thx for yr help :)

 

Which council district are you in?, because they are the only one that matters,

 

what may be "acceptable" to one council is not necessarily acceptable to others, - You local paper pushers are they ones you need to placate

 

 

 

If you feel like having a look at some of the craziness that goes on have a search for pool at the MBIE determinations page

 

https://www.building.govt.nz/resolving-problems/resolution-options/determinations/determinations-issued/?keyword=pool&topic=&action_doSearch=Search

 

 

 

In this one, Auckland council would not certify a similar infinity type pool to yours, on the grounds that a 6 years could climb up the 1190mm OUTSIDE wall of the pool.... at least MBIE told them to reconsider.... 

 

https://www.building.govt.nz/resolving-problems/resolution-options/determinations/determinations-issued/determination-2019-066/

 

 




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  #2422287 17-Feb-2020 11:38
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Hi Garry, sorry, I can't figure out how to just reply to your comment without spamming everyone else. But thank you all for your comments/help as well : )

 

 

 

@Garry, I live in Auck but new build will be under Far North District Council (FNDC).

 

 

 

FNDC "'paper pushers" - (haha) typically just follow Auck Council decisions and for what we're proposing, I don't think they're going to be easily placated.

 

 

 

I'd previously read  the determination of the link you sent and that is one of the verrrrrryyyyyy few where MBIE have sided with the applicant.  

 

 

 

I've read the majority of the determinations relating to F9 and agree, some of the decisions made are simply crazy. There's one which is VERY similar to what we're proposing (using building wall as barrier to entry into immediate pool area) yet MBIE have decided that the 'mechansim' on the self closing/self latching doors no longer complies (https://www.building.govt.nz/resolving-problems/resolution-options/determinations/determinations-issued/determination-2019-001/)

 

 

 

 

 

I believe we're in quite a unique position with constructing a new build but also believe what we're proposing with come with increased scrutiny - from FNDC. 

 

 

 

As such, I'm really hoping to hear if anybody out there is aware of any alternative solutions (which have been accepted since the Swimming Pools Amendment Act came into force 01 Jan 2017) similar to what we're proposing to build?

 

 

 

We'd definitely prefer an uninterrupted transition from the deck area into the pool (without a glass barrier obstructing the non-infinty edge) and fingers crossed I can find a similar alternative solution. 

 

 

 

If I can find a similar alternative solution, or even better, an Acceptable Solution which has code compliance under the new F9 - Restricting access to residential pools, then I can use that to bolster my arguement.

 


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