New Building Help with Cladding and Windows plaese

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vyasnilay

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#272557 1-Jul-2020 16:48

Hi,

I am looking for the help for the follwoing two topics,

1) I am planning to use the black brick as cladding for new build but not sure if the black brick colour fead off due to sun or rain. I have attached the photo of that with this forum. Can someone please suggeset if this is real issue with the draker colour brick in Wellington/ Upper hutt area.

2) Windows,

Do theraml breaking aluminium joinery is worth of the price?

Do max or xcel Low-E worth of price?

Dose that helps .. we have 3.8k for Xcel upgrade and 2.7 k for max upgrade not sure which one should be worth for money. The joiner told me xcel is better with clarity and stuff but again if spending 1k give only little benefit or speding one 1k give more benefit I am not sure so need some help there.

Thanks,

Nilay Vyas.

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#2515755 1-Jul-2020 17:01

Thermal break is worth it IMHO. I use PVC though rather than aluminium, but it only comes in white.

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#2515891 1-Jul-2020 19:56

timmmay:

but it only comes in white.

nope 100% incorrect there

timmmay

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#2515893 1-Jul-2020 20:05

Jase2985:

timmmay:

but it only comes in white.

nope 100% incorrect there

It might be more useful to give positive information, rather than posting a negative comment.

PVC can be coated in various colors, you can see on the ThermalFrame and Homerit websites. The colors generally suck, so you're best off with white. I wonder how robust the coatings are.

wellygary

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#2515901 1-Jul-2020 20:29

vyasnilay:

2) Windows,

Do theraml breaking aluminium joinery is worth of the price?

Do max or xcel Low-E worth of price?

Dose that helps .. we have 3.8k for Xcel upgrade and 2.7 k for max upgrade not sure which one should be worth for money. The joiner told me xcel is better with clarity and stuff but again if spending 1k give only little benefit or speding one 1k give more benefit I am not sure so need some help there.

Thanks,

Nilay Vyas.

Good, close fitting, heavy thermal curtains are a much better bang for your buck

timmmay

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#2515902 1-Jul-2020 20:31

wellygary:

Good, close fitting, heavy thermal curtains are a much better bang for your buck

They don't let much light in though!

Jase2985

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#2515904 1-Jul-2020 20:40

timmmay:

It might be more useful to give positive information, rather than posting a negative comment.

but you comment was wrong. i was pointing that out so it doesn't mislead others.

there are a few now that fuse the colour layer to the PVC layer during the extruding so its actually part of the PVC now, not just a coating or a film

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#2515932 1-Jul-2020 22:47

It is worth the extra $1,000 for XCel low-e over Max for the greater visible light entry alone. Cheaper, poor quality low-e products are a false economy.

Double glazing glass with XCel should be warmer than triple glazing without low-e.

Thermally broken aluminium is worthwhile. As far as I know APL brands (Vantage, First, Altherm) do the cheapest thermal break profile as the other local brands currently only do a thermal break in their premium profiles. If you're getting Nulook or Fairview thermal break you're also paying for their premium joinery and multipoint window locking is an option with those. Thermal breaks in premium profiles should perform mildly better thermally as they are wider.

I don't think black brick would be as much of an issue in Upper Hutt as in the upper North Island but on clear summer days I think you're going to feel it. Red bricks really heat up in the summer sun too so I'd look for beige, cream or something like that. Insulation slows down heat transfer but it can only do so much. What R value insulation are you getting?

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#2515958 2-Jul-2020 07:20

I live in a red brick house in Upper Hutt and really notice the heat that radiates off them in summer. I would not recommend dark bricks personally.
I've just installed uPVC windows, thermally broken, low xcel and laminated. It's only been a week or so, but loving the improvement over single glazed 1970s aluminium. The prices you have been quoted are on par with my quote too.

Most suppliers have uPVC in white and two types of wood grain. You are starting to see a wider range of colours, with one supplier doing an aluminium clip on which means your colour options are almost limitless.

vyasnilay

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#2515996 2-Jul-2020 09:31

bfginger:

It is worth the extra $1,000 for XCel low-e over Max for the greater visible light entry alone. Cheaper, poor quality low-e products are a false economy.

Double glazing glass with XCel should be warmer than triple glazing without low-e.

Thermally broken aluminium is worthwhile. As far as I know APL brands (Vantage, First, Altherm) do the cheapest thermal break profile as the other local brands currently only do a thermal break in their premium profiles. If you're getting Nulook or Fairview thermal break you're also paying for their premium joinery and multipoint window locking is an option with those. Thermal breaks in premium profiles should perform mildly better thermally as they are wider.

I don't think black brick would be as much of an issue in Upper Hutt as in the upper North Island but on clear summer days I think you're going to feel it. Red bricks really heat up in the summer sun too so I'd look for beige, cream or something like that. Insulation slows down heat transfer but it can only do so much. What R value insulation are you getting?

I am going to have R 2.6 fibreglass batts to walls and R3.2 fibreglass batts to celling

so Black brick can be a issue with summe geeting really hot.. but apart from that feading away is not much of the issue.. I guess..

elpenguino

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#2516018 2-Jul-2020 10:31

vyasnilay:

I am going to have R 2.6 fibreglass batts to walls and R3.2 fibreglass batts to celling

so Black brick can be a issue with summe geeting really hot.. but apart from that feading away is not much of the issue.. I guess..

You are asking about fancy upgrades to windows etc but you are planning to have the minimum legally specified insulation?

Do you realise that the walls and ceiling have a much bigger impact on the heating and cooling of the building than the windows because they cover much more area?

You will get way more performance increase and pay back by simply increasing the insulation up two notches.

It's not as sexy, I agree.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

timmmay

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#2516085 2-Jul-2020 11:26

elpenguino:

You are asking about fancy upgrades to windows etc but you are planning to have the minimum legally specified insulation?

Do you realise that the walls and ceiling have a much bigger impact on the heating and cooling of the building than the windows because they cover much more area?

You will get way more performance increase and pay back by simply increasing the insulation up two notches.

It's not as sexy, I agree.

Do you have a reference for that? A typical wall might be R3.6, single glazed window R0.19, double glazed window R0.43 (according to Consumer). I don't know how to do the calculations, but moderate sized windows with an R value that low seem like they'd let a lot more heat out than a wall.

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#2516092 2-Jul-2020 11:37

Thermally broken is definitely worthwhile. We've got a room that has a mix of older non-thermally broken and newer thermally broken windows. During one cold snap last year, I could literally see condensation on the older windows but the newer ones were fine. From memory, I measured a ~10 degree C difference between the two.

For the glass, we went with the Xcel max. Architect friend basically said go with the highest rating you can afford and I don't regret it. Same applies to in-roof insulation. Wall insulation you're a bit more constrained about what will actually fit in your stud depth.

elpenguino

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#2516100 2-Jul-2020 11:53

timmmay:

Do you have a reference for that? A typical wall might be R3.6, single glazed window R0.19, double glazed window R0.43 (according to Consumer). I don't know how to do the calculations, but moderate sized windows with an R value that low seem like they'd let a lot more heat out than a wall.

You (anyone) can figure it out for the proposed building using a spreadsheet. More information about the R value is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Build a spreadsheet for the area of the walls and ceilings, subtract wall area for windows and doors and insert the lower R values there.

You will see the difference between the different glass systems is less than the effect of the insulation due to the higher proportion of coverage by the non glazed areas.

I'll restate my earlier point - using the minimum specified insulation shows a lack of ambition. The building code is a minimum, you are allowed to make your building better.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Paul1977

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#2516178 2-Jul-2020 14:45

As far as black bricks fading, I don't think that's a concern (at least I hope not because we just built with black bricks). I think the picture you posted is probably how that house is meant to look.

Xcel is definitely better than Max, it's worth the extra $1.1K.

How much are they quoting to upgrade to thermally broken joinery?

I agree with others who are saying if you are looking to improve the thermal performance of the house, you need to be looking at the insulation as well (particularly in the roof since heat rises). With pink batts you can go up to R2.8 in 90mm wall framing and up to R4.0 in 140mm wall framing. In the roof you can go all the way up to R7.0.

For our build we went R2.8 in all 90mm external walls, R4.0 in 140mm walls (only had one of these), and R6.0 in the roof (going to R7.0 was quite a jump in price).

vyasnilay

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#2516290 2-Jul-2020 16:16

Paul1977:

As far as black bricks fading, I don't think that's a concern (at least I hope not because we just built with black bricks). I think the picture you posted is probably how that house is meant to look.

Xcel is definitely better than Max, it's worth the extra $1.1K.

How much are they quoting to upgrade to thermally broken joinery?

I agree with others who are saying if you are looking to improve the thermal performance of the house, you need to be looking at the insulation as well (particularly in the roof since heat rises). With pink batts you can go up to R2.8 in 90mm wall framing and up to R4.0 in 140mm wall framing. In the roof you can go all the way up to R7.0.

For our build we went R2.8 in all 90mm external walls, R4.0 in 140mm walls (only had one of these), and R6.0 in the roof (going to R7.0 was quite a jump in price).

I have been quoted

2800 - Low E - Max

4200 - Lowe - xcel

5200 - Theramlly broken window

1100 -- to get R value 2.8 walls and 4.0 celling ( Is it worth to spend 1100 for small increase in R value ?)

Black Brick -- I am not sure some site suggest darker colour brick leak some material with mostiure .. is it the issue with Upper hutt not sure.. This image I have shown to my friend and he told me it is not black brick it is charcole brick.. which tend to see like that.

Thanks,

Nilay.

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