Rate my Builder - Window Flashings & Cladding

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moschops

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#272766 14-Jul-2020 20:42

I recently purchased my first house, at long last, and no surprise there are a lot of small jobs to do. It’s based in Wellington, a 1930’s single storey semi-detached house on the flat.

First up was getting some cracks in our foundation ring fixed up.. had the guys from Concrete Solutions out to the the job and 5 star job they did.

In order to give them access to do the repair they required 1.5m of weatherboard removed from either side of the corner and asked I arrange a builder to do this since they didn’t want to risk causing more damage than needed since they know concrete, not wood.

I was recommended a builder who has a team of guys and he came out and did the work however in the process did damage more damage than expected but said it couldn’t be helped. He ended up not only removing the bottom boards but also the corner boxing and scribers.

The concrete guys did their stuff and it was time to patch things up and while they were at it I needed the window flashings replaced. They needed to order in some “custom made” flashings so while we waited for these to arrive.

The day came and they started on the window flashing. Took the guy 1.5 days to remove the old and fit the new ones to 3 small windows (2 x 1m wide and 1 x 1.5m wide). He then took a break for a week before returning to fix up the weatherboards and corner box that he removed. He has spent 1 day on it so far and the job is not finished so waiting for him to return.

I’ve taken a look at the work so far however and I’m not impressed.. maybe it takes a lot to impress me but to be fair I’m a newbie to this stuff so perhaps it’s my inexperience that means I’m not impressed. I’m therefore keen to get some other feedback based on some photographs that I took today.

Just to add to this though.. I was not expecting this but instead of replacing the old corner box he has fitted a new one as well as new scribers (since he managed to break these when removing them).

The things that jump out to me though are:

1. Window flashings - why is there a join in a 1.5m piece and should it look this messy?

2. Weatherboards - Why do the new weatherboards not line up with the old ones? Am I expecting to much that they should be flush with each other?

(I forgot to take picture of this - will add tomorrow)

3. Scribers - why are they not flush with the corner box (as they were previously) and even if the bevelled part is suppose to come out a bit should the edge not be flush with the corner and be so all the way up?

4. Scribers - is the type of sealant used between the weatherboard and scriber normal?

Overall it doesn’t look like a tidy job to me but before I confront my builder I feel like some 2nd (and hopefully more) opinions would be fair.

What are your thoughts and throw me any comments since this is the start of many dealing either with this, or if feedback suggests otherwise, a different builder.

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#2523100 14-Jul-2020 21:07

When you edit your post to add the missing image please rotate the images. It's more difficult to view / understand when it's sideways.

Old weatherboards are different sizes from new weatherboards. If you want cheap they will be different sizes and won't line up. If you want to pay a lot more you can get them custom made. From memory when I had the bottom couple of weatherboards replaced around the house it cost me $1000 to $1500 for matching weatherboards.

Where the flashing goes under wood it's inevitable that there will be gaps. Someone (the builder, or your painter) will have to use "more more gaps weatherboard" to fill the gaps and paint over them. It's best to give no more gaps 48 hours to dry, once it's touch dry in 30 minutes or so a bit of rain won't hurt it for that time. If you leave it unpainted for long it may not like it.

Can't really comment on the pics as bit hard to understand them sideways.

JeremyNzl

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#2523101 14-Jul-2020 21:07

That flashing is terrible, if they had to order it it should have been measured to fit with rolled edges, not cut with snips ,

Reno work is the pits for builders, but care should still be taken to maintain the original standard/character of the house.

If your not happy get onto him asap, I would have preferred screws not nails on the flashing.

snnet

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#2523107 14-Jul-2020 21:17

The filler between the scriber and weatherboard will be fine, I don't think the 'custom' flashing should have a join in it but I don't know what you paid for it. As long as it overlaps underneath it should be fine for where it is but the general idea of a flashing is one solid piece to prevent the ingress of water.

As for boards not lining up, there are probably not any they could source that are the same size as your original. A skilled builder COULD get bigger boards and rip them down to size, this would take time and potentially some waste for if some split in the process etc. The bill will go up for this.

FYI I have seen large expensive renovations where it was not possible to get the same width boards and the clients went with a different size, though you couldn't really tell when it was all finished.

From your picture of the scribers meeting the corner box I can't really tell that it isn't flush with it? It looks pretty close to me but maybe it's the angle of the photo. Or are you meaning flush as in flush with the front of the boxed corner? If so, I've not actually seen that done on a house and what has been done in that photo looks like the correct way of doing it.

If you're concerned about a small gap, run some exterior grade no-more-gaps down before painting.

It's hard to pick at things if we don't know what you agreed to or if you had a fixed price etc.... I'm always weary of these enquiries being a tradie myself and (I'm not saying you are) people expect a million dollar job for something that was priced on their budget as being adequate but not "mint".

All in all it looks like a good job aside from the flashing. That doesn't sit right with me. It should really be one piece.

mdf

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#2523130 14-Jul-2020 21:57

Scribers and box corner look good to me. Paint hides a lot of sins (and I'd be surprised if your old ones weren't much the same).

As I understand it, you're not supposed to have any boards fully flush with another 90 degree board, especially things like facing boards and scribers. They will expand and contract differently and a smooth line of paint will almost certainly crack. A slight offset (a "quirk" I believe) means it won't crack. More paint thickness in a corner I guess.

neb

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#2523185 14-Jul-2020 22:47

mdf: Scribers and box corner look good to me. Paint hides a lot of sins

Bash to fit, file to hide, paint to cover. Old Russian proverb.

moschops

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#2523186 14-Jul-2020 22:52

Thank you for all the responses so far.

It sounds like the scribers are fitted fine and just need a bit of paint.

I’m going to question the head flashing middle join.

To address a couple of questions:

timmmay:
When you edit your post to add the missing image please rotate the images. It's more difficult to view / understand when it's sideways.

Yes, will do, I uploaded them via my phone and they looked the correct orientation but will fix up from my computer tomorrow instead.

snnet:
It's hard to pick at things if we don't know what you agreed to or if you had a fixed price etc.... I'm always weary of these enquiries being a tradie myself and (I'm not saying you are) people expect a million dollar job for something that was priced on their budget as being adequate but not "mint".

Totally understand. This is the first builder I’ve taken on to do a job so just asked for the cost to do the job asking that things were tidied up to bring back to “good as new” so assumed it would be tidy clean fitting but I will learn to not assume next time. The price for this work, which also includes fitting another window flashing that has not been done yet, is $4500 + GST.

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Bung

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#2523188 14-Jul-2020 23:01

On first glance the scribers look a bit proud but looking at other examples on google that seems the style for some builders. Flashings, I've done some on my place in two pieces just because it wasn't possible to get it in under the board in 1 piece with the amount of gap I could get. The bottom weatherboard seems odd, backward with bevel facing forward. I'm used to seeing a fillet of wood behind the lowest board and it matching the rest.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#2523210 15-Jul-2020 00:47

Is this guy a Licensed Building Practitioner? I recently got a friend to replace a rotten wooden window with a second hand aluminium one. It required a similar flashing to yours up top, but it was done in a single piece and his cutting and shaping technique at each end of the flashing was exquisite. My friend is a LBP but he's only 23 or 24 so definitely doesn't have decades of experience, but he clearly knows his sh!t.

The fact that he's apparently done my job to a standard infinitely higher than yours sort-of speaks volumes to me. I would definitely be asking for that flashing to be redone if I were you.

Handle9

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#2523215 15-Jul-2020 02:04

moschops: Thank you for all the responses so far.

snnet:

It's hard to pick at things if we don't know what you agreed to or if you had a fixed price etc.... I'm always weary of these enquiries being a tradie myself and (I'm not saying you are) people expect a million dollar job for something that was priced on their budget as being adequate but not "mint".

Totally understand. This is the first builder I’ve taken on to do a job so just asked for the cost to do the job asking that things were tidied up to bring back to “good as new” so assumed it would be tidy clean fitting but I will learn to not assume next time. The price for this work, which also includes fitting another window flashing that has not been done yet, is $4500 + GST.

If you aren't happy say so and ask them to explain. You don't need to be a dick about it but say your piece before you hand over any cash.

If they haven't clarified scope then it's their problem to fix to a standard you will accept. If they have and you agreed to something you now regret, bad luck.

You need to say something before they go any further with the work, that minimises rework and costs. Personally I'd reject the combination of the corner and scribers. Each are done fine but look like pants together.

Do not pay until you are happy. The builder may get a bit ropey but it's your house and after he disappears you have to live with it.

snnet

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#2523216 15-Jul-2020 05:26

Okay, $4500 I would definitely expect better. Hit them up about that first flashing for sure.

snnet

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#2523217 15-Jul-2020 05:33

Wheelbarrow01:

Is this guy a Licensed Building Practitioner? I recently got a friend to replace a rotten wooden window with a second hand aluminium one. It required a similar flashing to yours up top, but it was done in a single piece and his cutting and shaping technique at each end of the flashing was exquisite. My friend is a LBP but he's only 23 or 24 so definitely doesn't have decades of experience, but he clearly knows his sh!t.

The fact that he's apparently done my job to a standard infinitely higher than yours sort-of speaks volumes to me. I would definitely be asking for that flashing to be redone if I were you.

I agree with the flashing, it is pretty sloppy. It also isn't "custom" which I understand flashings usually are and they do carry a price tag representing this. I would have thought the price you were given would definitely imply proper flashings.

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Froglotion

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#2523391 15-Jul-2020 10:54

4.5k for that?? What the actual f....

Yes you should expect a single piece flashing, they have murdered that one so i'd be expecting it perfect for that money. As for the scribers, a builder could custom make some to match what you have. They look to have just used the ones that come with Linea cladding. Can't go flush due to the curved nature, but they could potentially cut the front curve off in place to give you a flat finish.

AklBen

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#2523497 15-Jul-2020 13:30

I am in a similar boat to you (recent homeowner with limited idea of what's good and bad so far!) and have had some similar remedial work done by a builder.

Aside from the flashing, the weatherboard and scribing work looks perfectly fine, it looks very similar to what it was for me before I painted it. Now it's sealed/gap filled and painted it looks good.

Talking to a mate who's an architect he said that one of the things that builders loathe is doing scribing as it's tricky and on older houses doesn't follow a uniform pattern. So I wasn't surprised to find that the new scribing looked worse for a fit perspective than some of the scribing that was original. The builders we use are also fitting to a particular budget. Just requires some more gap fill.

I also find that anything the builders do is fairly expensive. Oh - and also our work is always at odds with other jobs on the go, don't be surprised when they turn up for a day then do something else and come back later in the week - and the chasing of tradies to quote, start etc. is like pulling teeth (across the board I've found).

Question, how much did you get charged for the foundation work?

FineWine

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#2523512 15-Jul-2020 14:03

moschops: Totally understand. This is the first builder I’ve taken on to do a job so just asked for the cost to do the job asking that things were tidied up to bring back to “good as new” so assumed it would be tidy clean fitting but I will learn to not assume next time. The price for this work, which also includes fitting another window flashing that has not been done yet, is $4500 + GST.

Scheisse $4500 + GST

How many quotes did you get for the work ?

Was the work carried out by a "licensed Builder" or "Rent-A-Husband" ? because that flashing is a shocker and at a guess would may not be to code.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Tracer

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#2523672 15-Jul-2020 18:08

Scribers aren't that hard to get right.

-e- This is his better video

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