For Christchurch home owners - Onsold EQC question

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › For Christchurch home owners - Onsold EQC question - next steps?

Blurtie

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#277137 28-Sep-2020 12:20

Hey all,

I know there are a few Chch residents here, I need your help/advice on our house on how to proceed.

We're post earthquake arrivals to Christchurch and purchased our place back in June 2018 (1920s bungalow), all EQC works were signed off and complete and we've had the claims assigned to us as part of the S&P. There were two claims lodged which were pretty minor, and well under the cap.

After having a read of various articles in the media as well as hearing (horror) stories from work mates, it seems the entire scope and/or repairs left a lot to be desired.. We have a number of cracks around the ring foundation - some look minor, 1 is quite big. We got in contact with GCCRS and have lodged an application under the govt's onsold provisions.

GSSRS sent out a 'building specialist' who had a quick look round the house, didn't see him take any notes, but reported back and said he did not consider there to be evidence of earthquake damage to reopen the EQC claims. As our house has little ground clearance, he could not get under the house to check.

So it's my understanding that the ball's in my court now and we can either accept the findings or continue to do some further investigations. Both obviously have their pros/cons - which I'm sure will be known by Chch residents.

However, we're thinking of taking it at least to the next step and getting a critter crawler in to survey the underfloor. Or would it be better to engage an engineer first? What have you done or what would you suggest as the next step? Recommendations on engineers or underfloor inspectors would also be welcomed.

I presume our biggest hurdle is trying to prove the cracks/damage were earthquake related damage and not there pre earthquake. I appreciate that we're probably opening Pandora's box by investigating further, but I think it's the best course of action - unless you think different?

As an aside - not sure how relevant this might be, but the section the house was on was sub-divided post earthquake, and they did some tests on the ground for foundation work - it came back as being rated TC3 land, previously the section/area the house was on was rated TC2. To my limited understanding, it seems to suggest that the land was a bit more mushier that first thought, so could suggest that there might be some damage there?

Thanks all.

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#2575297 28-Sep-2020 13:29

We are going through the Onsold process at the moment. We didn't go through GCCRS, but instead used the Onsold Application form through the EQC website:

https://www.eqc.govt.nz/canterbury/on-sold-over-cap-properties#node-detail-1999

EQC appointed a Claims advisor, who appointed a builder, and they met us at the house about 4 months ago to look at the damage. They then appointed an Architect and an Engineer and commissioned reports on the whole house, which have only just come through last week. Next step is to meet the builder onsite again this week to do his Scope of works now that the reports are through. We have dealt with EQC for 2 rebuilds so far, and I have found them 100% better to deal with this time than they were 5 years ago. I should point out this house is on TC1 land, but is Art Deco.

At the start of this process they said we would have to commission and pay for all of the reports, and they would include it as part of the final payout, but so far they have covered them all.

Have you formally applied for the Onsold programme? (as the deadline to apply is coming up fast!)

Edit: The Engineer they sent did a cavity critter, and drones over the roof.

Blurtie

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#2575305 28-Sep-2020 13:54

Thanks for the helpful info.

Yes, we have applied for the onsold programmed but we've received communication from EQC saying it's ineligible as it's still undercap atm and they have no supporting info to determine if it will exceed EQC's cap - so that's the basis of my understanding that the ball's in our court to get this additional info.. We have asked them to keep it open for the time being while we determine the next steps.

But that's interesting to see (and hear) that your dealings with EQC is much better than previously. Can I ask if you're claim(s) were still open when you purchased your property? Just trying to understand why it seems EQC seems more willing to commission the required reports.

I wonder if I pushed back to the GCCRS if they would do the same. I also wonder if I should've just go straight to EQC in the first instance. It seems like the first step is probably to try and get one or both or our EQC claims reopened, and it seems that would involve commissioning at least an underfloor inspection.

Also, it sounds as though you're happy with the builders/engineers, would you mind passing that info over? Happy if you would rather do it through PM.

Cheers

Paul1977

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#2575377 28-Sep-2020 14:35

I have no personal experience with them and have no idea what they cost, but when you Google about undetected earthquake damage to rubble ring foundations in Christchurch one name that pops up a bit is Bevan Craig of Underfoot Services.

Blurtie

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#2575405 28-Sep-2020 15:30

Thanks Paul,

Funnily enough, Bevan Craig rings a bell, it seems he was featured prominently in the articles I've read on Stuff - which pretty much kicked this off. Will look to get him a call.

Cheers

esawers

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#2575505 28-Sep-2020 17:26

Blurtie:
Thanks for the helpful info.

Yes, we have applied for the onsold programmed but we've received communication from EQC saying it's ineligible as it's still undercap atm and they have no supporting info to determine if it will exceed EQC's cap - so that's the basis of my understanding that the ball's in our court to get this additional info.. We have asked them to keep it open for the time being while we determine the next steps.

But that's interesting to see (and hear) that your dealings with EQC is much better than previously. Can I ask if you're claim(s) were still open when you purchased your property? Just trying to understand why it seems EQC seems more willing to commission the required reports.

I wonder if I pushed back to the GCCRS if they would do the same. I also wonder if I should've just go straight to EQC in the first instance. It seems like the first step is probably to try and get one or both or our EQC claims reopened, and it seems that would involve commissioning at least an underfloor inspection.

Also, it sounds as though you're happy with the builders/engineers, would you mind passing that info over? Happy if you would rather do it through PM.

Cheers

Our claims were closed and all repairs were done when we purchased the property.

The Engineer was commissioned by the builder, we were happy(ish) with the report but I have spoken to many people who were not happy with this company - so I won’t recommend them :)

There is a Facebook group ‘EQC and Insurance Woes’ which might be helpful for you as well.

Blurtie

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#2654483 11-Feb-2021 10:50

Hey All,

Just thought I'd post a quick update.. We ended up engaging Underfoot Services to do an inspection of our foundations. The inspection happened yesterday and will be getting our assessment report in the next month or two.

From my brief discussion with the tech that came out, as soon as he saw the foundation he was pretty sure that there would be grounds to reopen our claim.. So let the fun begin....

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Paul1977

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#2654538 11-Feb-2021 11:29

Blurtie:

Hey All,

Just thought I'd post a quick update.. We ended up engaging Underfoot Services to do an inspection of our foundations. The inspection happened yesterday and will be getting our assessment report in the next month or two.

From my brief discussion with the tech that came out, as soon as he saw the foundation he was pretty sure that there would be grounds to reopen our claim.. So let the fun begin....

@Blurtie can I ask how much the inspection cost? I'm surprised it takes up to a couple of months to get the report.

Blurtie

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#2654540 11-Feb-2021 11:43

It's around $1500 for the whole thing. It's a bit on the pricey side, esp seeing as some other companies could do it for around the 7-800 mark and I did have a think about whether to go with them. But I figured Bevan/underfloor were that kinda people you wanted on your side.. After meeting the tech, I'm more at ease with my decision and kinda glad I went with them. I believe I can recoup the costs from EQC if our claims are reopened..

The tech spent around 2 hours on site, measured up the foundations, mapping out location of piles etc. Had a few issues with one side of the house as the bearer was too low to the ground so the crawler couldn't get under. I think the footage he recorded with the crawler will go back to the office for review. I've already sent them all relevant EQC docs, so I assume they'll go over that to come up with their opinion on whether there's quake damage or unscoped/improper inspection by the EQC. Probably another couple of hours work there, so I can kinda see why the costs are that high.

The tech said they had a bit of a backlog due to the onsold program cut off towards the end of last year, so they were playing a bit of catch up..

Paul1977

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#2654608 11-Feb-2021 13:13

Blurtie:

It's around $1500 for the whole thing. It's a bit on the pricey side, esp seeing as some other companies could do it for around the 7-800 mark and I did have a think about whether to go with them. But I figured Bevan/underfloor were that kinda people you wanted on your side.. After meeting the tech, I'm more at ease with my decision and kinda glad I went with them. I believe I can recoup the costs from EQC if our claims are reopened..

The tech spent around 2 hours on site, measured up the foundations, mapping out location of piles etc. Had a few issues with one side of the house as the bearer was too low to the ground so the crawler couldn't get under. I think the footage he recorded with the crawler will go back to the office for review. I've already sent them all relevant EQC docs, so I assume they'll go over that to come up with their opinion on whether there's quake damage or unscoped/improper inspection by the EQC. Probably another couple of hours work there, so I can kinda see why the costs are that high.

The tech said they had a bit of a backlog due to the onsold program cut off towards the end of last year, so they were playing a bit of catch up..

That doesn't sound too bad as, from what I have read, they have a history of going to bat for the homeowner with EQC if required. And, like you said, if it found unscoped earthquake damage then I think EQC would have to reimburse the the cost of the inspection anyway.

Good luck, I hope it all gets sorted.

Blurtie

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#2654653 11-Feb-2021 14:09

Thanks. I'm expecting a long and protracted battle. We've already emailed EQC/GCCRS who have come back and said the report alone won't be enough, so looks like we'll need to engage LBPs and/or engineers at some point.

Any one happen to know what a full ring foundation rebuild might cost (I'm sure it's a case by case and would be worst case scenario of course, but like to be prepared..)?

Fred99

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#2654662 11-Feb-2021 14:27

I saw some horrible repairs carried out to ring foundations by cowboys. In some cases I saw, they bunged putty or builder's bog in the cracks and a fresh coat of paint over the top, by the time I was looking shortly after, the bog had already fallen out.

I wasn't going to trust anybody to do crack injection repairs at our place.

EQC used per lineal metre rates, IIRC was $90/metre for crack injection. A friend of mine was doing crack injection on commercial buildings, going base rate was at that time double that ($180/m).

So I DIY repaired about 35 lineal metres of small cracks, largest about 2mm, most <1mm. I had access to Sika injectable epoxies and repair mortars etc at trade price, and did the job properly. I'd worked as a contract estimator doing concrete repair on high rise/commercial buildings overseas, so had a head start on the "how to" if not much hands-on.

EQC's allowance in their scope of works for crack repair was < $3500. I used over $3,000 of epoxy, nipples, injection tubes etc etc. It took me (IIRC) about 5 days to complete, then several days more for cosmetic re-plastering so that the repairs are invisible from the outside. I do not believe that contractors had any hope in hell of ever doing these (relatively simple and "non-structural") jobs properly at EQC rates, and I never saw any contractor doing it properly. (Except when working on commercial buildings where they were supervised by engineers, core samples taken etc. and working for an insurer - not EQC)

9 years and thousands of aftershocks later, all the repairs are perfect, nothing has moved. I left the nipples and mortar etc under the house for reference/evidence, and have a catalogue of photos of the damage and repair process.

OTOH older houses with rubble filled ring foundations, it's pretty doubtful that epoxy repair would be much use, doing the job properly to "as (good as) new" probably means replacing either sections of, or the entire perimeter foundation. Same if a reinforced concrete foundation has serious / wide cracks - ask an engineer if the rebar spanning a crack 5mm wide - thus "stretched" 5mm - could be made "as good as new" by gluing it back together,

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Fred99

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#2654664 11-Feb-2021 14:29

Blurtie:

Any one happen to know what a full ring foundation rebuild might cost (I'm sure it's a case by case and would be worst case scenario of course, but like to be prepared..)?

Expensive, and if it's complete replacement to "as (good as) new", then engineer and/or council is probably going to want a full geotech survey before calculations can be done, plans can be drawn up, and cost estimates made.

Blurtie

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#2654676 11-Feb-2021 14:50

Thanks Fred, looks like you know what you're doing..

Care to elaborate on 'expensive' or put a ball park figure on it so I know what I'm dealing with? We've got a rubble ring foundation, from what i've read, an epoxy repair won't cut the mustard.

From my position, if a complete replacement is required (and depending on the cost to do this, i.e. if 2-300k+), I would seriously consider demolishing and rebuilding and save the hassle/cost of engaging further professionals/assessors to argue on a suitable repair strategy.

esawers

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#2654684 11-Feb-2021 15:37

I haven’t heard of many people who have got more than an epoxy repair for a rubble foundation, while there is plenty of people calling out that it’s not a correct repair strategy I don’t know that anyone is actually listening yet.

We engaged a reputable engineer last week to peer review another engineers work, and even he said that the EQC act states ‘as when new’ instead of ‘as new’ and that an epoxy repair would meet that.

I’m keen to hear if anyone has successfully fought that though as we are in the same position

Fred99

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#2654740 11-Feb-2021 16:25

I couldn't even guess. The work is going to have to be consented, sounds like it's way too much structural repair to be exempt, TC3 rating might mean excavating deeper, compacting fill etc. Then what the contractor reckons he can do with access, ie just prop enough to replace the foundation, if not that means probably disconnecting all services, power/water/sewer etc. If some piles need to be replaced then how many? Maybe it's acceptable to cut holes in floors to do a few - probably not if it's a lot, so the house would probably have to be lifted and propped to give safe access to replace them. They'll also probably end up damaging plaster etc if jacking it up, so then there's the cost of plaster repairs, interior repainting etc. So it could be a big job, maybe that $2-300k ballpark is close.

Then OTOH if the place is habitable and safe and you can negotiate a satisfactory settlement because it should have been written off, demolishing and rebuilding might be the way to go, or selling it "as is", take the money and walk away.

People are paying big money (IMO) for houses in Chch at the moment - especially at the "affordable" end of the market. You should have seen capital gain since 2018.

Talking to a local estate agent and finding out what the house is worth "as is" now, and what it might be worth fully repaired is free advice, even if RE agents are a bit cunning.

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