LED downlights: Recessed or flush-mount?

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neb

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#277164 29-Sep-2020 19:46

Some years ago I got some great 5W recessed LED downlights, no flicker, full-spectrum colour output, which are no longer made (the Orbit ODLI5RW2 in case anyone's interested). Most of the downlights available now are flush-mount, and I'm worried about glare from them. Does anyone have any thoughts on/experience with this? And recommendations for substitutes would be good, these are 300lm which are just right, I really don't want 800-1000lm lights that blind you every time you walk into the room.

Had a preliminary look at M10/Bunnings on the weekend, many of them flicker and one that looked good wasn't full-spectrum. I'd prefer not to mess with dimmers to simulate a less-bright set of lights using over-bright lights if possible.

Oh, and wandering around the Mitre10 lighting department with a spectrometer gets you funny looks.

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#2576119 29-Sep-2020 19:59

There are a few different ones out there with the option of anti glare lenses and the like (switch lighting comes to mind), as well as ones that are now classed as "architectural" where the luminaire is higher up in the fitting, along with the lens, rather than flat at the bottom (I'm thinking this is what you mean?) however neither of these are likely to be on par with the price of an Orbit fitting, just FYI

Colour rendering index (CRI) and lumens are more meaningful than watts, but I am assuming you probably know this

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#2576123 29-Sep-2020 20:15

Sure. Back when I got the Orbit ones I found most LED downlights were tilted towards the blue end of the spectrum, or showed weird gaps in the spectrum, more a discrete line spectrum. Most current downlights now advertise a CRI > 80 and show a corresponding continuous spectrum so this is probably not such a big deal any more, apart from the ones advertised as cold white they all seemed more or less identical.

I've been looking at the Switch stuff based on a recommendation in a long-ago thread, problem is they only seem to be available from wholesalers/trade places and wanky boutique lighting stores, neither of which give prices or give the impression they want to sell to the likes of me.

snnet

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#2576139 29-Sep-2020 20:52

Fair enough, if you spot something you like at switch, let me know and I'll get you a price at my cost - no skin off my nose. They usually range around $50-80 each, just as an indication

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#2576148 29-Sep-2020 21:22

Thanks, I was looking at the SL50, for which I found a single site that has a price, $40.25 and a SLED315F, for which ditto, $51.80. They give a CRI of 80 which is fine but I'd really like to check one for flicker before buying, the current Orbits have zero flicker while several I looked at at M10 using a special high-tech device known as a "fidget spinner" [*] flickered badly.

I assume these have external drivers that can be dropped on top of the insulation? The install PDF link is a 404 and the photos only show the emitter.

[*] Yes, there is a legitimate use for those things.

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#2576208 29-Sep-2020 22:24

Had these at my old place. To my untrained (but relatively picky) eyes they were pretty good and from memory they were around $35ea cash price from JA Russell when I had to replace one:

http://www.ambiuslighting.co.nz/product-catalogue/indoor-lighting/recessed-down-lights/12w-led-110mm-3k-warm-white-downlight-adled12w110dv2

Yes, they're 850lm, I didn't find them blinding, but they were spaced well on our ceiling and the diffuser is pretty good. Other models if those don't suit:

http://www.ambiuslighting.co.nz/product-catalogue/indoor-lighting/recessed-down-lights

neb

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#2576216 29-Sep-2020 22:39

pih: Had these at my old place. To my untrained (but relatively picky) eyes they were pretty good and from memory they were around $35ea cash price from JA Russell when I had to replace one:

http://www.ambiuslighting.co.nz/product-catalogue/indoor-lighting/recessed-down-lights/12w-led-110mm-3k-warm-white-downlight-adled12w110dv2

Yes, they're 850lm, I didn't find them blinding, but they were spaced well on our ceiling and the diffuser is pretty good.

Thanks. Although at 70 lumens/watt they're pretty low efficiency, which means a lot of it will be going into heat which for IC-F lights can be a problem - ours will be under a thick pile of insulation.

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#2576524 30-Sep-2020 13:58

If you're replacing your old downlights, what size are the holes in the ceiling?

snnet

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#2576569 30-Sep-2020 16:10

Ambius now offer a CRI of >90 at the same price. I haven't seen these flicker, but am not sensitive to it. I've never seen the switch ones flicker either - the fitting you have mentioned has a driver that can be installed under the insulation along with the fitting itself. I -believe- that fitting (along with their SL11x range that are not deep tilt versions also allow this and are 0 clearance rated for being right next to/surrounded by timber etc

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#2576579 30-Sep-2020 16:28

I find the phone camera is the best test for flicker since it will get quite high pwm artifacts that don't really show up to your eye or a moving item in a brightly lit showroom but do when back home and it's darker and I'm my peripheral vision.

I got some nice looking led waterproof batterns from Bunnings on clearance that are now in the basement because they flickered like a crt tv so had to be banished from the house.

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#2576613 30-Sep-2020 17:02

richms: I find the phone camera is the best test for flicker since it will get quite high pwm artifacts that don't really show up to your eye or a moving item in a brightly lit showroom but do when back home and it's darker and I'm my peripheral vision.

I got some nice looking led waterproof batterns from Bunnings on clearance that are now in the basement because they flickered like a crt tv so had to be banished from the house.

tehehe if it's the ones I am thinking of, Bunnings asked us to install some of them above one of their trade desks for use - we replaced them every couple of weeks as they kept failing

neb

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#2576619 30-Sep-2020 17:09

richms: I find the phone camera is the best test for flicker since it will get quite high pwm artifacts that don't really show up to your eye or a moving item in a brightly lit showroom but do when back home and it's darker and I'm my peripheral vision.

Yeah, tried that at M10 but their display panels have them all bunched together so the most you can say is that one of this set of three or four flicker like crazy. That's definitely my go to check if the lights are isolated.

It also depends on the angle, if you hold the camera straight up to the light it just floods the sensor, if you hold it at an angle, say 70 degrees to catch more of something the light is hitting then the flicker is more obvious. That's why I like the fidget spinner strobe check, it's pretty uncritical about how you take the measurement.

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#2576625 30-Sep-2020 17:18

I just dump the phone on the lamp directly so it drops the exposure massively and then all the bands show right up. Get weird looks dragging the "staff only" ladder over to the display to get close enough tho.

The led battens were ledvance or something. Basically I think osrams cheap brand for china. Basically an led strip in a long tupperware container so the $16 is probably a fair price for them. Normal price on any of those is a GTFO thing. Still nothing in that form has been as flicker free as my fluros in the garage so I've just relamped them all recently to all match.

Richard rich.ms

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#2598331 5-Nov-2020 15:23

@snnet I hope you don't mind me asking you a few questions...

My parents are looking at replacing 13x incandescent downlights in their place with LED. They are currently running 100w bulbs and don't want to lose any light, a bit brighter is OK though. 90mm cutout which they would prefer not to enlarge. Not worried about dimming them (they don't currently have dimmers anyway), and they want something rated so it can be covered with insulation.

I found the Ambius ADLED12W110DV2 (higher CRI & more efficient than the previous model I think?) and really like the look of it, and consequently found this thread, sounds like you are pretty familiar with them.

Would you recommend them for this type of 'retrofit'? Anything to be aware of? Do they come with a driver when purchased, or is that a separate purchase? Our local J A Russell agent isn't keen to sell direct to the public (fair enough), my parents have a friend who is a sparky who's happy to install them, but I don't think he has an account there, any recommendations on getting them for trade or close to trade price?

Thanks heaps!

Stu

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#2598354 5-Nov-2020 16:05

Our house is kitted out with these: http://www.ambiuslighting.co.nz/product-catalogue/indoor-lighting/recessed-down-lights/10w-led-110mm-quick-connect-downlight-adledac10w-3t

Being able to switch colour temp between 3000K/4000K/5000K means no new lights if the use of a room changes. So the office is sitting at 5000K, but with the flick of a switch on each of the two lights, it can be repurposed as a bedroom.

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

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neb

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#2598423 5-Nov-2020 19:20

wratterus:
My parents are looking at replacing 13x incandescent downlights in their place with LED. They are currently running 100w bulbs and don't want to lose any light,

Beware of incandescent anxiety. If they're going to put in 13 "100W-equivalent" LEDs, whatever that is, they'll need to wear sunglasses inside. In particular if they were recessed in common fittings like DOT-110s then they'll have been providing a lot less light than 100W would seem to indicate, while flush-mount ~1500lm LEDs are going to be insanely bright.

I replaced our 75W recessed incandescents with 5W LEDs and they're plenty bright.

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