Advice: Need to replace back door with a door that is capable of being 'exposed' to the elements

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Advice: Need to replace back door with a door that is capable of being 'exposed' to the elements

Benoire

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#293546 28-Jan-2022 21:40

We're just coming to the painful closure of our insurance repairs in our kitchen following a hot water cyclinder failure in August 2020. Final snagging and stuff was done, arguments had etc. but the insurance firm has cash settled for the newly replaced back door that is showing signs of water ingress as it wasn't sealed properly and not on the right way round.

Now normally I'd argue with them over this but in this case previous owners had removed the porch and the door installed, whilst being an exterior door, it is highly exposed to the elements as its really only protected by the eaves and therefore not compliant with the manufacturers requirements. I am aware that any door we source ourselves will suffer similar unless designed for full exposure and I'm after some advice as to the right approach.

I'm not adverse to paying more for this if it gets a door that is fully weathertight and potentially sealed as we often get water in heavy rain coming under the bottom, even with a door strip.

I guess I'm looking for 3 things, recommended companies in Auckland, type of door material e.g. alu vs. upvc and then may be peoples thoughts on cost to retrofit including frame as our one is quite old and probably won't survive a new installation. I will get companies out to quote but would like to have a good handle on pro/cons and potential costs.

Any advice, direction, comments are greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Chris

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timmmay

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#2857987 28-Jan-2022 22:23

UPvc or aluminum. We have found UPvc to be better quality, double sealed, adjustable hinges (which helps when things expand in summer), generally better closing than aluminum. The downside is your color choices are extremely limited - glass, white, or a couple of wood grains.

Expect any door order including installation to take 9 - 15 months between calling them and installation, maybe more, most are so busy the queue for a site visit is 3 months. The cost is likely to be between and $5k to $8k. We recently paid $8k for an aluminum door with a frame and a bit of glass around it, and it took 14 months.

Goosey

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#2857989 28-Jan-2022 22:28

photos?

Id be replacing the whole frame, not just the door....

that way you could solve the issue of wind blowing in the water.

Maybe retrofit ? but if existing water damage, then whip out the frame and get a whole new unit?

insane

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#2857990 28-Jan-2022 22:36

I have an Alu door exposed, but for a small awning over it. Previous owner installed it into existing wooded framing.

I didn't realise it was Alu for 4 years until I changed the lock... Very light, tough, but has a few small dents in it, and the paint coat could be better. Hopefully with a new coat of paint it'll last many years more.

mdf

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#2858005 28-Jan-2022 22:49

What does "not on the right way round" mean in the context of a door? I thought an exterior door was an exterior door, I don't think I've seen a door with an inside and an outside?

Benoire

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#2858007 28-Jan-2022 22:55

mdf:

What does "not on the right way round" mean in the context of a door? I thought an exterior door was an exterior door, I don't think I've seen a door with an inside and an outside?

You're right in that exterior doors are sealed both sides, but in this case it has beading that secures the glass which was placed on the outside. This doesn't overlap the face so water collects in the little channel created and has seeped in behind the facing material and made the corner swell on all four glass peices. The manufacturer doesn't flat out say that there is a specific way around but recommends the bead be on the inside for security reasons and clearly its better as the other face is one solid piece right up to the glass:

Benoire

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#2858008 28-Jan-2022 22:58

Goosey:

photos?

Id be replacing the whole frame, not just the door....

that way you could solve the issue of wind blowing in the water.

Maybe retrofit ? but if existing water damage, then whip out the frame and get a whole new unit?

Yeah I was thinking of the frame and door... however it does depend on price. We're probably only going to be in the house for another couple of years after which is either move to a new house or rebuild/extend here so that may complicate things if the price is too high.

Benoire

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#2858009 28-Jan-2022 23:01

timmmay: UPvc or aluminum. We have found UPvc to be better quality, double sealed, better closing than aluminium. Expect it to takes year been calling and installation, maybe more, and $5k to $8k. We recently paid $8k for aluminium with frame, took 14 months.

Thanks, was yours a full installation? What size, ours is basically a standard door size opening something like 890mm wide x 1900mm high. I probably wouldn't go down the alu/pvc route if it was in the range you've paid as we're on limited time in this house due to its size and a new build or move away will be on the cards in a few years.

mdf

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#2858012 28-Jan-2022 23:04

Benoire:

You're right in that exterior doors are sealed both sides, but in this case it has beading that secures the glass which was placed on the outside. This doesn't overlap the face so water collects in the little channel created and has seeped in behind the facing material and made the corner swell on all four glass peices. The manufacturer doesn't flat out say that there is a specific way around but recommends the bead be on the inside for security reasons and clearly its better as the other face is one solid piece right up to the glass:

Huh, that's a new one for me! I guess it makes sense in this context but but traditional windows are always installed from the outside with putting/glazing compound installed from the outside. The putty seals better than bare wood so the bare wood goes on the inside. I guess if it's double glazed (and so won't ever need replacing) you can silicone it in?

In terms of the actual query, I looked at fibreglass, aluminium and PVC doors a few years ago. Settled on fibreglass since it was the best insulated and could be painted any colour (wasn't happy with the stock pre-finished colours of aluminium and PVC). Fibreglass can also be fitted to an existing frames, I believe the others usually require a new frame.

Can't vouch for this personally, but the aluminium door salesman claimed (his) aluminium doors sealed best, since they came with a three point lock (top, bottom and jamb) which seems to make sense in principle. Best sealing of all was an externally opening door, but that is a bit non traditional and only works if you've got a large area in front of the door. We would have swept visitors off the front step every time we opened it.

Eva888

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#2858013 28-Jan-2022 23:05

We have gone through this exact exercise in a very high wind exposed spot with no eaves or protection and pools inside every time it rained. The original wooden door opened inward. Pity you aren’t in Wellington so you could use the outfit we had. Not a drop of water inside anymore even with the rain and wind pounding it. Mine cost just over $3.2 which was a grand less than most other quotes so shop around. That was almost a year ago.

What I learned is that the door should open outward. It should be Aluminium with a high wind rating, double glazed and for it to come complete in its own frame. My installers added aluminum over the bottom exterior sill frame. The inside door handle flips upward to lock into top and bottom as well, thus keeping the door firmly in place. Opening outward also gave me more wall and room space in the small laundry.

In high wind our other door which also opens outwards actually gets sucked outward even though the wind blows directly at the door, so you really need the extra top and bottom locking. I was quite shocked at the amount of pressure pulling on the door when we were waiting for a new latch set replacement. A storm came up on the day and we hammered four inch nails into a beam and tied rope to the beam and the door to stop it being sucked out. I always assumed the wind would push it into the frame. Wrong.

Benoire

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#2858019 28-Jan-2022 23:29

mdf:

Huh, that's a new one for me! I guess it makes sense in this context but but traditional windows are always installed from the outside with putting/glazing compound installed from the outside. The putty seals better than bare wood so the bare wood goes on the inside. I guess if it's double glazed (and so won't ever need replacing) you can silicone it in?

In terms of the actual query, I looked at fibreglass, aluminium and PVC doors a few years ago. Settled on fibreglass since it was the best insulated and could be painted any colour (wasn't happy with the stock pre-finished colours of aluminium and PVC). Fibreglass can also be fitted to an existing frames, I believe the others usually require a new frame.

Can't vouch for this personally, but the aluminium door salesman claimed (his) aluminium doors sealed best, since they came with a three point lock (top, bottom and jamb) which seems to make sense in principle. Best sealing of all was an externally opening door, but that is a bit non traditional and only works if you've got a large area in front of the door. We would have swept visitors off the front step every time we opened it.

Yeah its different and not entirely obvious at first look but the design does let water pool between the bead and the face unfortunately and without a porch its not supported by the manufacturer in terms of warranty as its been installed out of spec. The previous model of that door lasted well over 10 years without issue but they've changed the design slightly and so in the same location its now failing.. learning experience really should have upgraded when the insurance works was on-going as it would have been cheaper overall.

Fibreglass may be the right approach. Looks like I can get one that will fit in the frame and is 'cheap'. Wouldn't solve the water potentially getting in at the bottom the same way a full frame retrofit would but I probably can manage in the same way we have already. Presume you can cut fibreglass and the cores to install a catflap without issue?

timmmay

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#2858054 29-Jan-2022 08:20

Benoire:

Thanks, was yours a full installation? What size, ours is basically a standard door size opening something like 890mm wide x 1900mm high. I probably wouldn't go down the alu/pvc route if it was in the range you've paid as we're on limited time in this house due to its size and a new build or move away will be on the cards in a few years.

Mine was supply and install. If you have a builder do the measure, order, and fitting you might find it's a lot quicker. Ours is standard door sized as they changed the surround (glass left, right and above) to achieve that.

I purchased two wooden doors about 5 years ago, good brands. One lasted 5 years until I got sick of slight leaks and repainting requirements and replaced it with PVC. The other shed door is still there but every summer needs some attention to fix cracks - sometimes no more gaps and paint, sometimes just paint. I'm never buying a wooden door again.

There is another type of door, fiberglass. Have a look at the links on this thread.

I've edited my post above now.