WWYD - Covering a garage path, garage "pergola", and post anchors

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › WWYD - Covering a garage path, garage "pergola", and post anchors

mdf

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#293591 31-Jan-2022 21:44

I've got essentially a path behind my garage with a bank on the other side. I'm currently in the process of concreting this, primarily to stop weeds and other garbage accumulating. File photo (too dark to go take a current one):

I've compacted down the hardfill and was preparing for concrete but have now decided - far too late to be ideal but not quite late enough to make it impossible - it would possibly be a really good idea to put some kind of (probably clear) roofing over it. Some of the bigger more cumbersome tools (wheelbarrow, concrete mixer, long ladders) may find their way out here, and the additional shelter would be useful for that. It could potentially be quite a good lumber store with some kind of racking system.

I'm thinking at this stage basically a really shallow pergola off the side of the garage and roofing over the top. But keen for thoughts about what you would do:

- The side of the garage already has a run of guttering. A single pitched roof sloping left to right (as you look the image) could drain to that gutter, but might look odd (though it's not in a very visible area)

- A single pitched roof sloping right to left would look more "pergola-ly", but would need new gutting to stop the rain just draining down around anything underneath

- Cantilever off the garage with a single line of posts, or posts both sides? Double line of posts would be way more work but the inside line of posts would be great for racking timber

Most importantly, would you dig up the compacted hardfill - which will be a real pain involving a kango - for the posts, or use some kind of anchor or stirrup? I've never used these before, but from what I can tell, a fishtail anchor looks as though you place before pouring concrete? But how do you keep them in the right place while concreting? Especially if there were two lines of posts which would need to line up.

Total length is about 8m; width narrows from about 1.2m to 1m. Narrow, so will be a PITA to get stuff in and out, but currently said stuff is currently blocking other areas of the garage so will still be a step forward.

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Smpl Mnmlst
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#2859623 31-Jan-2022 22:03

Could be that your compacted hardfill would make them difficult to drive in *, but maybe you could use Nuraspikes, rather than digging a hole and concreting-in the fish-tail stirrups. Then find a way to secure your posts to those.

https://www.bunnings.co.nz/nuraspike-500-x-250mm-deck-pile-5-pack_p0183111

https://www.nurajack.co.nz/nuraspike.html

This Bowmac bracket would be able to be bolted to the top of Nuraspikes:

https://www.bunnings.co.nz/bowmac-b28-hot-dip-galvanised-post-and-bearer-bracket_p0336998

* Thinking further, if the hardfill is a problem, maybe you could drill a pilot hole for the spikes using the Kango - to ease the way.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

Jase2985

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#2859685 1-Feb-2022 00:25

why not just pour the path and put in bolt in anchors?
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/bowmac-b28-hot-dip-galvanised-post-and-bearer-bracket_p0336998

or use a wet set one like this? put it in the concrete as your pouring
https://www.bunnings.co.nz/bowmac-b12-hot-dip-galvanised-post-and-bearer-bracket_p0336882

neb

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#2860060 1-Feb-2022 14:59

Given the location and the green on the rocks, is it a good idea to put a clear roof there? It's likely to get similarly green fairly quickly... how much do you use it for access vs. just dropping some shade/damp-loving plants like rasp fern in there to fill the space and keep everything else down?

Edited to add: Wrong name, I meant ladder fern not rasp fern. Nearly indestructible, stays green during dry spells, and crowds out other stuff like weeds while providing shelter for, in our case, a family of quails, so a great space-filler in locations that would otherwise have problems with weeds.

nickb800

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#2860071 1-Feb-2022 15:17

eracode:

Could be that your compacted hardfill would make them difficult to drive in *, but maybe you could use Nuraspikes, rather than digging a hole and concreting-in the fish-tail stirrups. Then find a way to secure your posts to those.

https://www.bunnings.co.nz/nuraspike-500-x-250mm-deck-pile-5-pack_p0183111

https://www.nurajack.co.nz/nuraspike.html

This Bowmac bracket would be able to be bolted to the top of Nuraspikes:

https://www.bunnings.co.nz/bowmac-b28-hot-dip-galvanised-post-and-bearer-bracket_p0336998

* Thinking further, if the hardfill is a problem, maybe you could drill a pilot hole for the spikes using the Kango - to ease the way.

I don't think nuraspikes are suitable for a pergola, as you need to consider uplift forces (roof acts as a sail in the wind, foundation needs to resist that). Nuraspikes are fine for a low deck where the majority of the force is the weight of the deck and its occupants.

djtOtago

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#2860077 1-Feb-2022 15:26

Where does any water that comes down the bank flow or drain too?

I hope it doesn't just pond up against the back of the shed.

+1 for @Jase2985 suggestions.

elpenguino

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#2860086 1-Feb-2022 15:39

djtOtago:

Where does any water that comes down the bank flow or drain too?

I hope it doesn't just pond up against the back of the shed.

+1 for @Jase2985 suggestions.

Good question. Of course, the level of any new concrete has to be below the garage slab or bottom plate and it's hard to see in the photo but it looks like the fill is not far enough below this level (yet?).

I'd consider concreting in post supports along the garage wall with a cantilevered short, light roof. Additional posts could render the space difficult to manoeuvre things in and out.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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neb

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#2860090 1-Feb-2022 15:49

elpenguino: Of course, the level of any new concrete has to be below the garage slab or bottom plate and it's hard to see in the photo but it looks like the fill is not far enough below this level (yet?).

Another though, if there's a roof over it and you can dig some sort of drainage channel along the bank to catch water coming down, do you even need to concrete the surface? Just put in posts and a roof and the lack of light and water should keep the compacted rock/gravel? free of anything. It'll also mean that you won't have to worry about water running across the concrete, it should soak into the ground.

elpenguino

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#2860117 1-Feb-2022 16:05

neb:
elpenguino: Of course, the level of any new concrete has to be below the garage slab or bottom plate and it's hard to see in the photo but it looks like the fill is not far enough below this level (yet?).
Another though, if there's a roof over it and you can dig some sort of drainage channel along the bank to catch water coming down, do you even need to concrete the surface? Just put in posts and a roof and the lack of light and water should keep the compacted rock/gravel? free of anything. It'll also mean that you won't have to worry about water running across the concrete, it should soak into the ground.

Would be a great idea except OP has a concrete mixer so probably wants every opportunity to take it out for a spin.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

mdf

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#2860125 1-Feb-2022 16:26

Thanks team. The photo is old, it's just one I already had showing the space. Since then I've dug up quite a bit (mostly rocks and leaves), put down decent hard fill and compacted. The ground slopes front to back (away from the wheelbarrow in the picture) and there is channel and grate and a proper drain at the rear. I dithered a bit about another line of channel and grate along the garage foundations, but left a bucket back there in a heavy rain and it got very little rainfall anway. However we do live coastal and and have noticed a little bit of salt gathering on things back there - hence the roof plan to try and minimise this.

So the current plan (pending) is to put a slope on the concrete front to back and any water that does fall on the path will drain away from the wheelbarrow and in to the drain.

However that slop also led to complications when considering posts. Is there any way to install the bolt down brackets on sloped concrete? Other than maybe packing up with washers?

I like @Jase2985's suggestion of placing anchors as I pour the concrete. I take it they don't need tying in to the steel or anything?

mdf

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#2860131 1-Feb-2022 16:31

Fair point @neb about the roofing and mould. Right now it's fairly dead space, it's not used for any kind of access and until a year or so ago I just left it to go to wrack and ruin. It got really overgrown with some stuff starting to grown right up against the garage cladding. I cleared it out with a view to just paving it to prevent the cycle starting again. But while it wasn't a tropical rainforest, discovered it was useful to store some of the bigger awkward things like ladders and scaffolding. Hence the current pergola plan to make it even more useful for storage (hopefully).

Jase2985

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#2860256 1-Feb-2022 21:45

mdf:

I like @Jase2985's suggestion of placing anchors as I pour the concrete. I take it they don't need tying in to the steel or anything?

personally i would always put in some form of reinforcing in concrete but i dont believe they would require being tied to anything

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geoffwnz

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#2860416 2-Feb-2022 07:42

mdf:

I've never used these before, but from what I can tell, a fishtail anchor looks as though you place before pouring concrete? But how do you keep them in the right place while concreting? Especially if there were two lines of posts which would need to line up.

Looks to me like they've got a really handy mounting point on the top with built in alignment that you could run a temporary "bearer" along the line of the posts and just hang the brackets off it in the position they'd need to be in, pour concrete, remove "bearer" once it's set.

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Jase2985

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#2860854 2-Feb-2022 21:00

honestly with a stiff concrete mix the horizontal part of the bracket will just sit on top of the concrete no need for bracing or anything

MikeAqua

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#2861086 3-Feb-2022 10:15

I've used a hired post hole borer to dig holes in compacted hardfill. It was a pendulum style, hydraulically driven machine. Great machine. Self propelled.

Like this DHS Hydraulic Post Hole Digger | Red Roo Sales & Service

I couldn't have done it with a handheld posthole borer.

Mike

neb

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#2861303 3-Feb-2022 16:22

MikeAqua:
I've used a hired post hole borer to dig holes in compacted hardfill. It was a pendulum style, hydraulically driven machine.

That's a really clever design! I've only seen the handheld one/two-person ones which I imagine wouldn't have a hope in hardfill.

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