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neb

neb

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#295417 27-Mar-2022 19:47
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We've got a small side roof, about 7m long by 1.5 wide, which has Stormcloud internal-clip guttering along it:

 

 

 

 

As the photo background shows, this attracts an awful lot of leaves, and it's more or less inaccessible except with one of those J-shaped gutter-cleaning water blasters. The gap between the roof and gutter edge is narrow, about 50mm, and the gutter is right up under the roof.

 

 

The idea was to replace it with external-clip Typhoon which doesn't have the clips in the way of cleaning, however this leads to a second problem:

 

 

 

 

Since the fascia is very short, the replacement guttering would be right up against the roof edge, and since Typhoon is designed to overflow inwards (!!) any overflow would spill into the polycarbonate cladding, which may not handle a torrent of water spashing against it (that area is essentially a shed, not part of the house, so the wall polycarbonate just buts up against the roof polycarbonate).

 

 

Any thoughts on this? One somewhat kludgy solution would be to screw a much wider fascia onto the existing one (removing and replacing the existing one isn't really an option) and then screw the gutter glips to that, which would solve several problems at once: The gutter would be lower down, giving easier access for cleaning, and it'd be further out from the wall and longer so overflow could safely spill against it. So imagine a much wider fascia and the gutter lower down:

 

 

 

 

The downside is that it's turned a simple hour-or-two gutter replacement job into more serious building work, that area is really difficult to get at so even unclip-and-reclip was going to be rather challenging, this makes it much more so.

 

 

Alternatively, am I overthinking this and it'll be OK to just remove the existing Stormcloud and put in Typhoon at the same position on the existing fascia? That place really doesn't get as much rain as everywhere else since it's south-facing and in the rain shadow of the rest of the house above it, so maybe just replace-in-place is fine after all.

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  #2892905 27-Mar-2022 20:06
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does the gutter need replacing?

 

would it not be better to go with some type of gutterguard product to keep it clear?


 
 
 

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neb

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  #2892907 27-Mar-2022 20:10
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Jase2985:

does the gutter need replacing?

 

would it not be better to go with some type of gutterguard product to keep it clear?

 

 

Gutterguard does a really good job of protecting the gutter against rain. What happens is the leaves sit on the gutterguard, then the water runs over the top and spills down the sides. We've actually been offered free gutterguard by a neighbour, but telling us why it was going free kinda put us off it :-).

  #2892908 27-Mar-2022 20:12
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im guessing the pitch of your roof is the issue




mdf

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  #2892912 27-Mar-2022 20:44
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When I did it I added a fascia flashing. Which my house should have had in the first place.



Edit: being clear about which house I'm talking about.

Bung
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  #2892986 28-Mar-2022 00:02
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neb: Since the fascia is very short, the replacement guttering would be right up against the roof edge, and since Typhoon is designed to overflow inwards (!!) any overflow would spill into the polycarbonate cladding, which may not handle a torrent of water spashing against it (that area is essentially a shed, not part of the house, so the wall polycarbonate just buts up against the roof polycarbonate).


AFAIK all gutter profiles have inside edge lower than the front. The new gutter shouldn't be any worse in this regard than the old but will have a much greater capacity and be easier to clean. Narrow as the fascia might be it still covers to top of the wall sheeting so any overflow should run down the outside of the wall.

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  #2892994 28-Mar-2022 08:17
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Bung:
neb: Since the fascia is very short, the replacement guttering would be right up against the roof edge, and since Typhoon is designed to overflow inwards (!!) any overflow would spill into the polycarbonate cladding, which may not handle a torrent of water spashing against it (that area is essentially a shed, not part of the house, so the wall polycarbonate just buts up against the roof polycarbonate).


AFAIK all gutter profiles have inside edge lower than the front. The new gutter shouldn't be any worse in this regard than the old but will have a much greater capacity and be easier to clean. Narrow as the fascia might be it still covers to top of the wall sheeting so any overflow should run down the outside of the wall.

 

This - both stormcloud and typhoon are lower on the inside than the outside. Typhoon has a 6100mm2 cross section, stormcloud 5100mm2. So much less chance of overflowing in the first place


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  #2893120 28-Mar-2022 13:13
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nickb800:

This - both stormcloud and typhoon are lower on the inside than the outside. Typhoon has a 6100mm2 cross section, stormcloud 5100mm2. So much less chance of overflowing in the first place

 

 

I'm not expecting overflow from normal rain since the roof area is pretty small and mostly rain-shadowed, but from flow being blocked at some point by a clump of leaves since it's a major job to get up there and clean it all the time. But as @Bung pointed out as long as it goes down the fascia and not inside the polycarbonate it should be fine.

 

 

As a general question, why do gutters overflow inwards? Given that the water is going to hit the ground anyway it seems safer to have it falling through air rather than redirected onto/into the house walls. Friend of mine is about to spend a fortune replacing his cursed concealed guttering which also overflows inwards, into the living room, bedrooms, ...



mdf

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  #2893121 28-Mar-2022 13:21
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neb: As a general question, why do gutters overflow inwards? Given that the water is going to hit the ground anyway it seems safer to have it falling through air rather than redirected onto/into the house walls. Friend of mine is about to spend a fortune replacing his cursed concealed guttering which also overflows inwards, into the living room, bedrooms, ...

 

I don't know, but I suspect the higher outside edge is supposed to catch water flowing (maybe "arcing") off the edge of the roof. Neighbours had (pretty expensive) rolled on-site coloursteel guttering installed with inside and outside edges parallel. Quite a lot of rainfall sailed straight over the outside edge of the gutting and on to their deck. Admittedly this was both a steep roof pitch and part of the roof with lots of water on it since it also took the discharge from another roof. In a drizzle it just dripped off the edge but any substantial amount of water had enough momentum to miss the gutter entirely. With a higher outside, you can get it up past/close to the top of your roof to stop this happening.


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  #2893128 28-Mar-2022 13:29
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I suspect gutters flow inwards so that the exterior face of the gutter hides the ugliness of the roof edge and spouting clips. A minor overflow should follow the outside of the spouting through capillary action and not even touch the fascia. A large overflow wouldn't go past the fascia before dropping to the ground (I suspect the conventional design pre-dates houses without eaves).

 

 

 

For the leaf blocking issue I guess just set the fall as much as possible, and use the 80mm dropper and downpipe to maximize flow, even though the roof area probably doesn't justify it. 


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  #2893131 28-Mar-2022 13:36
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nickb800:

For the leaf blocking issue I guess just set the fall as much as possible, and use the 80mm dropper and downpipe to maximize flow, even though the roof area probably doesn't justify it. 

 

 

Ah, good idea on setting the fall, thanks! It's actually going to be going via an 80mm dropper into a leaf catcher and then runs on around the side of the house and down to the water tank in the original 65mm. That was another reason for replacing the guttering, to take the portion subject to leaves from 65 to 80mm.

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  #2893153 28-Mar-2022 13:56
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One of my neighbour's gutters. Something to aspire too, I think the house was originally intended to go somewhere with snow.



The low end of one of our gutters. The roof is low pitch but the water used to completely overshoot the gutter. Added piece cut from spare piece of Classic.


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  #2893155 28-Mar-2022 14:00
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neb:
nickb800:

 

This - both stormcloud and typhoon are lower on the inside than the outside. Typhoon has a 6100mm2 cross section, stormcloud 5100mm2. So much less chance of overflowing in the first place

 

I'm not expecting overflow from normal rain since the roof area is pretty small and mostly rain-shadowed, but from flow being blocked at some point by a clump of leaves since it's a major job to get up there and clean it all the time. But as @Bung pointed out as long as it goes down the fascia and not inside the polycarbonate it should be fine.

 

 

If you are overly concerned or overtopping on the inward side becomes and issue then drill some holes in the guttering in the outer side, or in the end cap, just below the height needed for the water to overlap the inside....  this should allow an overflow to prevent any overtopping...


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