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neb

neb

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#298514 23-Jun-2022 16:20
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The Casa de Cowboy has 1970s dark alu window frames, which have known problems with leaking at the corner mitres. In this case almost every window facing north or west has had rotted-out window sill corners and there's high moisture readings inside the walls.

 

 

The suggestion from both BRANZ (link above) and the waterproofing company who've done other work here was to either take them out and waterproof around the edges with new flashing added underneath to deal with future leaks (BRANZ "have the window professionally refurbished"), or replace the windows with modern uPVC ones. Sealing the corners may or may not work, and isn't really a long-term solution.

 

 

Has anyone been through this before? There was a thread on alu windows a few years ago but that was mostly advice on new ones... I know that in the long term I'll probably have to get them taken out and sorted, but I'm dreading the hassle and mess of removing and replacing them in rooms that have only just been completed after the rebuild.

 

 

And finally, to anyone else who has the dark 1970s/1980s-style alu window frames, get the corners and walls underneath checked for moisture. There were moisture problems with pretty much every window I checked here.

 

 

Edited to add: Comment from the architect, even if the window is taken out and refurbished it has to be done to a certain standard or may not be able to be refurbished. Refurbs are popular in reclads to save the cost of a new window.

 

 

In this case given the amount of work involved it probably makes sense to just put in new windows...

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timmmay
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  #2933582 23-Jun-2022 16:23
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Windows in our old weatherboard house were very easy to remove and have new ones fitted. There were about four screws holding each one in. A bit of tidy up to do inside and outside, but maybe not as bad as you think.


mattwnz
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  #2933583 23-Jun-2022 16:34
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May help to see some photos of the problem and the interior and exterior conditions. Are there roof overhangs over the windows, or do they get wet everytime it rains? I suspect replacing the windows is best option, because even repairing them may need removal and then repair around them. It sounds like water is wicking up by capillary through the mite joins, I have seen this occur on new ones too.


neb

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  #2933649 23-Jun-2022 17:46
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I can take a photo tomorrow when it's light but I'm not sure whether it'll help much, it's just a window with no signs of leaks or damage, the moisture is inside the walls. I was more after people's experiences in getting something similar refurbished or replaced, i.e. how painful is it likely to be.



itxtme
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  #2933667 23-Jun-2022 20:35
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I would personally take the opportunity to upgrade.  If you are not installing yourself half the cost is in the labour so...  We wanted not white ones so went with Thermally broken Alu, they have been excellent.  In regards to the damage, it should be limited to new architraves assuming arcs are what your house uses.  We had no arcs but switched to them as that means, trim the plasterboard cut out the window with reciprocating saw, new one slots in.  Arcs get installed, then paint it.

We replaced the 70's Alu and it was buggered on a couple windows from having a single open handle rather than two.  Would a refurb thermally break the alu?  Assuming not, in which case waste of time


Spyked
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  #2933670 23-Jun-2022 20:50
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I have been a renovation window installer for the over 25 years and would offer the following advice.

 

1. Don't waste your money on 50 year old windows, you will still spend a lot and they will still be crap. Probably 3mm glass with appalling thermal loss and all the hardware, catches,stays etc are end of life.

 

2. NZ has been a graveyard for pretty much all the various pvc type windows. Put simply, buy today but expect the supplier to be gone within a couple of years. For various reasons they don't seem able to stand up to our local conditions.

 

If you don't believe me, get quotes and then check to see how long their products have survived in our market, company history etc. Be wary of the slick sales rep.

 

3.If you can afford it do the lot at once, costs have increased exponentially in the last year or so and it's only going to get worse. The are cost benefits if the supplier is producing a decent number of units off the one order. Less wastage of extrusion lengths etc.

 

4. Old window frames don't do well with the weight of double glazed glass panels, you will end up with more leaks and the difference is night and day so trust me, you want it.

 

5. If you live where it snows, thermal break aluminium is worth the cost. If not just stick to regular extrusion.

 

6. Why, why, why do so many people decorate their homes, and only then decide to replace their windows? It's major surgery to your house. You will need to do touch ups. Possible gib replacement under the wet corners or likely some plastering if it's not mouldy.

 

7. Stick to a reputable long lived brand and try to stay local if you can. A company that's three hours away will struggle if they are needed for simple warranty repairs such as catches etc.

 

Hope this is useful

 

Cheers

 

Mark


linw
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  #2933672 23-Jun-2022 21:07
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I know those windows!! Our previous 1974 house had them. But I only had trouble with one of them. I re-siliconed the bottom corners and that stopped it leaking. Then I crossed my fingers! 

 

Best of luck.


neb

neb

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  #2933673 23-Jun-2022 21:15
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itxtme:

I would personally take the opportunity to upgrade.

 

 

Good point about both the labour costs (which was also what was driving me towards replacement rather than refurb), and also that the alu isn't thermally broken. The rest of the house is done in Homerit so it's just a case of replacing the existing alu with Homerit uPVC now that we know there's an issue - we hadn't even known about the one particularly bad window until the redo because there was a bed in front of it and the old carpet either never got damp enough or dried out quickly enough that it wasn't noticeable.



timmmay
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  #2933684 23-Jun-2022 21:59
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One of my uPvc windows made by ThermalFrame in Lower Hutt is ten years old, still looks good and works well. The other windows / doors are 6 - 8 years old and look pretty much like new.


Spyked
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  #2933699 23-Jun-2022 22:29
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timmmay:

 

One of my uPvc windows made by ThermalFrame in Lower Hutt is ten years old, still looks good and works well. The other windows / doors are 6 - 8 years old and look pretty much like new.

 

 

8 to 10 year old joinery isn't old yet.

 

I'm sure there are some perfectly happy owners of pvc windows but sadly we have replaced too failed units for me to have much faith in them at this point in time.

 

I don't have skin in the manufacturing game but I have replaced literally thousands of windows and should aluminium joinery be banned tomorrow, I would be fitting plastic the next day.

 

Fifty year or more old ali is common for a reason, it's stood the test of time.

 

However, if you have found a good long term supplier of pvc that you are happy with then all is well in the world.


mattwnz
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  #2933701 23-Jun-2022 22:48
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If the internal reveals are rotting, I would be concerned about the surrounding framing especially the sill. These days they put flashing tape around the opening and often the aluminium frame sits on the outer side of the cladding, with most claddings now on a drainage cavity.

tweake
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  #2933834 24-Jun-2022 11:35
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just keep in mind that the golden rule is all windows leak.

 

check the drainage path. not uncommon for people to incorrectly seal up the drainage path under the bottom of the window.


tweake
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  #2933836 24-Jun-2022 11:40
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Spyked:

 

I have been a renovation window installer for the over 25 years and would offer the following advice.

 

...........

 

 

i would be interested to hear about how much damage gets done to the cladding when replacing windows.

 

i have 70's (?) style aluminium windows (those appalling rubber gasket to the cladding ones) i would love to get rid of, but the cladding is vertical pattern fibrolite that i would not want to be cracked/broken. long term idea at the moment is to hold off until i can replace the cladding as well and possible even put smaller windows in some locations.


Spyked
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  #2933915 24-Jun-2022 13:58
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tweake:

 

Spyked:

 

I have been a renovation window installer for the over 25 years and would offer the following advice.

 

...........

 

 

i would be interested to hear about how much damage gets done to the cladding when replacing windows.

 

i have 70's (?) style aluminium windows (those appalling rubber gasket to the cladding ones) i would love to get rid of, but the cladding is vertical pattern fibrolite that i would not want to be cracked/broken. long term idea at the moment is to hold off until i can replace the cladding as well and possible even put smaller windows in some locations.

 

 

A sharp putty knife will usually cut the old seal, if we are dealing with fragile cladding we often remove the sashes and fixed glass, put cuts through the old frame and collapse it into the resulting cavity rather than pushing the whole frame outwards and stressing the cladding.Done carefully there is normally none to minimal damage.

 

Be aware that 70's vintage fibrolite will contain asbestos so requires extra time and care, you don't want a rip sh*t and bust approach. Cuts kept to an absolute minimum with dust control etc.

 

You can also specify a wider weather flange on the replacement joinery for added coverage/protection and or use scribers up the sides.


itey
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  #2934010 24-Jun-2022 20:39
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wow you have provided some great intel thanks Spyked.


acetone
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  #2935330 28-Jun-2022 13:35
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I have noticed something simalar with my aluminum windows and was going to contact our builder to have a look.
I dread the cost of getting new windows installed but from the sounds of things that seems to be the best option.

 

 


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