Can recessed led's be mounted in pinex?

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mb82

220 posts

Master Geek

#310836 25-Nov-2023 22:52

Can recessed lights be mounted in pinex? I ask because pinex has a fire rating of zero, led's are not hot but the back of them get rather warm from the drivers (built in or external).

I have a somewhat lack of trust with modern electronics quality. I tested one with a built in driver that reached 65 celsius on the back. The other ootion would be recessed cans which do not seem readily available anymore...

Also on the subject of pinex has anyone removed the joining strips to make it look flat?

SomeoneSomewhere

1734 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3163819 25-Nov-2023 23:16

Placing the driver above the insulation is good practice if practical, and will reduce the light temps.

Downlights have SCB & HCB ratings (in millimetres) for distance to flammable structural materials, like ceiling joists. 0mm for both is standard for good modern lights.

The IC-4/IC-F standards verify compatibility with insulation rated for continuous exposure to 90C temperatures, and which passes a 30-second exposure to a 'needle flame'. It seems unlikely Pinex would pass that. OTOH, the front surface of the pinex is exposed to the cool room air which is not the case for thermal insulation in the roof space.

Further ways to improve light life and lower temperatures are to pick the biggest diameter light possible with the lowest wattage, to reduce the power density. If you can get one with an adjustable current driver, even better - wind it down and install more lights.

Can types are not likely to be any better (especially as someone could fit an incandescent bulb) and are probably not compliant as all residential downlights are now required to be insulation-compatible.

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mb82

220 posts

Master Geek

#3163914 26-Nov-2023 10:50

SomeoneSomewhere:

Placing the driver above the insulation is good practice if practical, and will reduce the light temps.

Downlights have SCB & HCB ratings (in millimetres) for distance to flammable structural materials, like ceiling joists. 0mm for both is standard for good modern lights.

The IC-4/IC-F standards verify compatibility with insulation rated for continuous exposure to 90C temperatures, and which passes a 30-second exposure to a 'needle flame'. It seems unlikely Pinex would pass that. OTOH, the front surface of the pinex is exposed to the cool room air which is not the case for thermal insulation in the roof space.

Further ways to improve light life and lower temperatures are to pick the biggest diameter light possible with the lowest wattage, to reduce the power density. If you can get one with an adjustable current driver, even better - wind it down and install more lights.

Can types are not likely to be any better (especially as someone could fit an incandescent bulb) and are probably not compliant as all residential downlights are now required to be insulation-compatible.

I am looking to use ambius lights so they are rated well. Says SCB and HCB = 0mm. So from that I take it that side clearance direct to pinex is ok.

They are IC-F standard but says loose fill insulation is not permitted to abut or cover. Was looking at NZS 4246 and it says clearance from loose fill should be 300mm. I have loose fill insulation in the ceiling with fiberglass insulation sitting ontop of it. Seems odd if they are ok to be mounted with 0mm side clearance to pinex but need 300mm clearance from loose fill insulation.

SomeoneSomewhere

1734 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#3163932 26-Nov-2023 11:01

Loose fill can potentially get inside the light, letting it contact parts that are hotter than the outside case.

Of course, IC-F is meant to specifically address this possibility with a sealed fitting. But the people writing the standards aren't necessarily that coordinated.

Once you have a hole into the ceiling cavity, scraping out the bulk of the loose insulation is easy enough.

tweake

2219 posts

Uber Geek

#3163956 26-Nov-2023 12:38

mb82:

Also on the subject of pinex has anyone removed the joining strips to make it look flat?

probably far better to pull the trim and remove the pinex and replace with gib. then its also easier to run the cables for the lights.