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mattwnz

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#317545 25-Oct-2024 00:19
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I have a new build home that I have been trying to get the plumber to come back and fix several installation defects for over a year. One defect is an expensive repair as it involves redoing the shower liner, where the shower as the acrylic liner hasn't been glued properly to the wall so it is bulging out, so the liner needs replacing and redoing. The original plumbery initially agreed to come to fix the defects, but I discovered they weren't currently licensed and told them they need to be licensed otherwise they would be carrying out illegal plumbing work. I didn't hear back so I contacted them again and they ignored me until they eventually responded to say they wouldn't be doing anything. They currently aren't licensed to do the work anyway. I believe I have given them enough opportunity to fix it.  So I have got another plumber to provide a quote for the work and report eh defects on the quote which they charged me for. I contacted several plumbers, but some didn't want to do the work because they didn't want to fix defective work from another plumber, and another plumber I contacted never showed up to quote. 

 

I am going to get the immediate defects fixed first. As the shower is going to cost thousands to repair, I was thinking that it maybe better to take the plumber to the disputes tribunal first with the quote, and get the money off the plumber to pay for it before I got the work done. Also it potentially gives him a final opportunity to do the work. Does this sound like a good idea, or is it better to go to the disputes tribunal after I have got everything repaired? My fear is that they may claim the repair cost was too high if I get the shower repaired now, and I only end up with a part payment to pay for it. But if I get to done afterwards, there maybe extra cost in plastering and paintwork around the shower if they don't get the liner off cleanly which aren't allowed for in the quote.

 

TIA


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eracode
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  #3301267 25-Oct-2024 04:43
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How you can approach this and what you might get out of it depends on the underlying situation and the backstory - more info is needed.

 

I’m wondering about your comments regarding the plumbers where you say a couple of times: “… they are not currently licensed to do the work…”.

 

Does this mean that, when they did the original work, they were licensed at the time - but are not licensed now? Or were they never licensed for the work they did?

 

If the latter, how did they get to do the work, i.e. who employed them? If it is illegal for them to do the fix now, was the original work done legally? What about council responsibility and sign-off on inspections etc - and do you have a Code Compliance Certificate?

 

You mentioned this is a new-build. Was it a project you initiated and managed yourself - or did you buy it as a turn-key from a builder or developer?





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Handle9
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  #3301269 25-Oct-2024 05:32
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Good luck getting any money out of the plumber. If they ignore the disputes tribunal decision then you have to take them to the district court for enforcement.

 

If they aren't licensed then I guess they aren't trading anymore. If they aren't trading then enforcement could involve a winding up order and you get basically nothing anyway.


Goosey
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  #3301271 25-Oct-2024 06:52
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As above, did you organise the plumber directly as part of the build or was it managed by the builder I.e. was it a managed build and the plumber was a sub of the builder or were they your direct contractor?

 

Do you have a master builders guarantee ?
would that cover it ?

 

 




wellygary
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  #3301314 25-Oct-2024 09:12
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eracode:

 

If the latter, how did they get to do the work, i.e. who employed them? If it is illegal for them to do the fix now, was the original work done legally? What about council responsibility and sign-off on inspections etc - and do you have a Code Compliance Certificate?

 

You mentioned this is a new-build. Was it a project you initiated and managed yourself - or did you buy it as a turn-key from a builder or developer?

 

 

 

 

Yip this .... Who signed off the Producer statements for the plumbing that were given to the council??

 

 

 

But the bottom line is you are gonna likely have to foot the bill, at least initially for any remediation...

 

You might be able to get something in the future by dragging the plumber through the D/Tribunal  or Court, but if it was set up as a Ltd company, and they are no longer in business, then its highly likely they will have liquidated it. 

 

 

 

There is the possibility of pursuing an action against a director of the company if they have personal actions that are deficient, but its a looong expensive process, and you will spend more on lawyers than on the plumbing...

 

https://www.raineycollins.co.nz/your-resources/articles/defective-construction-work-setting-up-a-company-is-not-a-shield-to-personal-liability

 

Edit: Grammar


mattwnz

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  #3301472 25-Oct-2024 15:10
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Thanks for the replies. 

 

Yes it was built of the builder / developer and they built and sold it as a new home. They did live in it for a few months prior to selling as it was a subdivided property and they sold the main house, and lived in the new one, until the sold the second house.  The builder however has moved out of the area and doesn't want anything to do with fixing defects, and said I must deal with the plumber directly, even though this is clearly wrong.  The council say they aren't responsible as they aren't quality control, and they say it is a workmanship problem, not compliance related, even though it involves some leaking plumbing that wasn't done properly. But it has a CCC so that isn't an issue. However checking the councils producer statements / record of works for the build, it actually shows the builder signed the plumbing ROW. Even though he isn't a registered plumber. Not sure how the council allowed that. So it looks like I would have to pursue the builder at the disputes tribunal if he signed it, but he has shut down communication. He is an LBP builder.. The record of work document was also signed under the builders personal name.  He does have a building company and that is still an active company, but the house was purchased off the builder in is own name, it wasn't a company that sold it to me. I think a lot of the materials were purchased through his company. The amount I would be claiming from the builder / plumber would be well under the maximum amount the disputes tribunal handles, so it shouldn't be an issue going through the Disputes Tribunal to resolve it.    

 

The plumber is registered to do the work, and was licensed at the time the work was done, so that is not an issue. However he isn't currently licensed to do the work to fix it. I understand plumbers have to get a new license every year or so and pay the fee and if they do the work and not licensed, they can get into trouble. 


wellygary
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  #3301475 25-Oct-2024 15:18
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As a separate path, why not lay a complaint against him with the "Plumbers board" and see what happens,

 

While they likely won't be able to order restitution, a win there will certainly make a Disputes Tribunal/ District Court case easier 

 

https://www.pgdb.co.nz/complaints_and_disciplinary_processes/

 

 


 
 
 

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CYaBro
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  #3301477 25-Oct-2024 15:21
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Since you bought the property from the builder / developer it's up to them to sort, you shouldn't have to be chasing a plumber.

 

 





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ascroft
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  #3301481 25-Oct-2024 15:35
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Yep - totally agree - they owe you the duty of care as your contract was with them.

 

M.





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mattwnz

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  #3301497 25-Oct-2024 15:37
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wellygary:

 

As a separate path, why not lay a complaint against him with the "Plumbers board" and see what happens,

 

While they likely won't be able to order restitution, a win there will certainly make a Disputes Tribunal/ District Court case easier 

 

https://www.pgdb.co.nz/complaints_and_disciplinary_processes/

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did speak to them about it,  and there is apparently quite a high bar involved and they said the best thing is to try and get it sorted with the plumber directly. They don't have a code of ethics like they do with builders. If he had fixed the defects and wasn't licensed, then that would have been easier. Plus if I lose that, then that could benefit the plumber involved. I did tell the plumber that I would look at doing that if he didn't come and fix the defects, and he said he would be happy for me to do that. 


eracode
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  #3301498 25-Oct-2024 15:38
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The builder is an LBP. You can make a complaint against him.

 

This is how you proceed.

 

The Building Practitioners Board might be very interested that he signed off on the plumbing ROW without being a Registered Plumber.





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Bung
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  #3301515 25-Oct-2024 16:17
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Reading the installation instructions for some shower liners they stress that the waste and supply connections must be done by a plumber but sticking the liner to the wall could have been something the builder could have done.

 

 


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backfiah
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  #3302669 29-Oct-2024 12:15
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Bung:

 

Reading the installation instructions for some shower liners they stress that the waste and supply connections must be done by a plumber but sticking the liner to the wall could have been something the builder could have done.

 

 

Yet another reason to make it the Developer's problem to solve...they can chase the subbies on their side!


mattwnz

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  #3302741 29-Oct-2024 14:50
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Bung:

Reading the installation instructions for some shower liners they stress that the waste and supply connections must be done by a plumber but sticking the liner to the wall could have been something the builder could have done.


 



From what the plumber told me, it appears he subcontracted out the shower box installtion to a third party company that specialises in doing shower installations but he didn't say who. If I had known who I could have probably gone to them as another avenue.

Bung
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  #3302764 29-Oct-2024 15:44
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How much is the quote to replace it? In other words how much do you value your sanity?

mattwnz

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  #3302775 29-Oct-2024 16:03
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Bung: How much is the quote to replace it? In other words how much do you value your sanity?

 

 

 

I have discovered it is both showers in the house , so it will be the best part of $6k to fix 


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