Options and help with Countersinking for wood screws

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alisam

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#317858 21-Nov-2024 13:55

Some of the house carpet has been uplifted and I used 2 packs of these screws (to help fix a squeeky particle board floor): Zenith 10G x 50mm Gold Passivated Square Drive Chipboard Screw - 50 Pack - Bunnings New Zealand.

I drilled the pilot hole and countersunk using this: P&N 10g Quickbit TCT Cut Smart Countersink Drill Bit - Bunnings New Zealand

I broke the two HSS (bonus) drills and stripped several SQ2 drill bits. I finished the job with a ratchet screwdriver and the TCT supplied drill bit. However, the floor still squeeks and will make a last effort and add some more)

I have more squeeky floorboards to fix when more carpet is uplifted and intend to purchase a box of 500 screws.

The replacement Quickbit Cut Smart drill bits are only available on special order, reasonable expensive just for 2 (P&N 9/64 TCT Cut-Smart Replacement Drill Bit - 2 Pack - Bunnings New Zealand) , but cheaper than buying another P&N Cut Smart tool.

I am replacing my very old Bosch corded drill with a drill/driver and impact driver and will use these.

Can anyone suggest an alternative to the P&N Quickbit Cut Smart Drill bit?

I have done a bit of homework, but I don't necessarily understand what I am reading.

So, the P&N Quickbit Smart Drill bit appears to have a 9/64" (3.57 mm) drill and a 3/8" (9.525 mm) countersink.

I have a set of Draper drills, which includes a 3.5 mm drill bit, plus I still have the Quickbit tool with the TCT drill bit.

I was thinking of purchasing a countersink drill bit (or set) which would be approximately 3/8" (9.525 mm). Using Mitre 10 and Bunnings (both at Westgate, West Auckland), there doesn't seem to be any countersink drill bits at this size.

Alternatively, there is this Bosch (for example): Wood Countersink Drill Bit | Other Drill Bits

I have no idea why or how I broke the two HSS drills and they do take a bit of time to extract them from the Quickbit tool.

I have look at other reviews for other tools e.g. Macsim 10g Standard Head Clever Tool - Bunnings New Zealand but the reviews can be glowing or not.

Could someone cut through my waffle and say 'This is what I would do (or have done)'. Any links would be appreciated.

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#3311442 21-Nov-2024 14:08

assuming the floor you're screwing in to is just standard flooring (either partial board, or even older T&G), I'd be very surprised that the screws do not counter sink themselves, and even pre drilling would not be required. As your looking to replace your older boash drill, get a combo kit of a drill and a separate impact driver, the impact driver with a square bit in it should easily drive the screws flat. The key is to ensure you screw into the sub frame (floor joists, normally found by looking which way the nails run.) If possible to get under the floor, before screwing, forcing some glue (no more nails type stuff) between the joist and flooring also often helps, (of course not often possible😒).

alisam

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#3311449 21-Nov-2024 14:34

nicmair:

assuming the floor you're screwing in to is just standard flooring (either partial board, or even older T&G), I'd be very surprised that the screws do not counter sink themselves, and even pre drilling would not be required. As your looking to replace your older boash drill, get a combo kit of a drill and a separate impact driver, the impact driver with a square bit in it should easily drive the screws flat. The key is to ensure you screw into the sub frame (floor joists, normally found by looking which way the nails run.) If possible to get under the floor, before screwing, forcing some glue (no more nails type stuff) between the joist and flooring also often helps, (of course not often possible😒).

Yes, just standard particle board flooring. I cannot easily tell (and it is on the upstairs level), but the particle board in the upstairs main bathroom which is being renovated seems to be about 20mm. I am thinking of this combo: Ryobi 18V ONE+ 2 Piece HP Brushless Compact Kit - Bunnings New Zealand. I don't think I need a DeWalt or a Makita for my needs, now or in the future. As regards countersinking, I get where you are coming from, plus nobody is going to judge how pretty the screws have been drilled in, apart from the fact they are not exposed.

mdf

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#3311450 21-Nov-2024 14:34

Noisy floor solutions depend a little on whether it is a creak, squeak or groan (i.e., what is causing the noise). Depending on what it is, solutions may vary. If you've already screwed and it hasn't solved it, it might be the joist making the noise rather than the flooring itself. See https://d39d3mj7qio96p.cloudfront.net/media/documents/BU521-Squeaky-floors.pdf and https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=208468&singlepage=yes.

If it is just particle board (i.e., soft wood) you probably don't need to countersink; the screw should pull itself in. Based on your description, maybe you have hardwood joists that are struggling with the screws and you might just need a bigger pilot hole or to lubricate the screw.

The style of countersink you've got should be good; I don't have anything that nice, and tend to use either this or this (cheap) style.

nicmair

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#3311455 21-Nov-2024 14:49

I know is a personal preference thing and some folk and very strong views, (insert expect to be shot down with comments here 😁) but if your happy to pay $349 for Ryobi, for another $40 you could get an AEG kit, (and some would argue superior quality).

AEG 18V 2 Piece Brushless Sub Compact Combo Kit - Bunnings New Zealand

but I suspect the Ozito one would do you just a good, (and save you some $$$)

Ozito PXC 18V Cordless Drill And Impact Driver Kit PX2PAK-500 - Bunnings New Zealand

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eracode

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#3311486 21-Nov-2024 15:58

At 50mm those screws are barely long enough for the job. If you’re buying more I’d get 65mm.

Does the Smart Drill Bit drill a hole of large enough diameter to give clearance to the screw thread i.e. so that the screw is not binding in the first hole in the flooring? Screws will work best if they are clearing the flooring and biting only into the joist - so that the head of the screw clamps the flooring down to the joist without ‘jacking’ (or bridging) the flooring material.

With a clearance hole in the flooring, those longer screws should easily self-drill into the joists without needing a pilot hole - and countersink themselves.

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#3311525 21-Nov-2024 18:01

I used a Tuff brand TCT QUICK-CUT because it was the cheapest of the P&N style of countersink. The replacement drill bits are around $20 for 5. The only difference i can see is the drills have a flat ground on the side that goes to the end rather than the short indent on the P&N. The grub screw should work on either.

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alisam

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#3311547 21-Nov-2024 19:26

mdf:

Noisy floor solutions depend a little on whether it is a creak, squeak or groan (i.e., what is causing the noise). Depending on what it is, solutions may vary. If you've already screwed and it hasn't solved it, it might be the joist making the noise rather than the flooring itself. See https://d39d3mj7qio96p.cloudfront.net/media/documents/BU521-Squeaky-floors.pdf and https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=208468&singlepage=yes.

If it is just particle board (i.e., soft wood) you probably don't need to countersink; the screw should pull itself in. Based on your description, maybe you have hardwood joists that are struggling with the screws and you might just need a bigger pilot hole or to lubricate the screw.

The style of countersink you've got should be good; I don't have anything that nice, and tend to use either this or this (cheap) style.

A creak, squeek or groan?

I will have to revisit. I put in 98 screws (2 broke) and ran out of screws. My wife is a lot lighter than me and basically says I am too heavy (wife speak for too fat). I'll get some 65mm screws next time and complete this section.

But the 98 screws certainly made a massive improvement (we still don't have new carpet in this area yet).

neb

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#3311654 21-Nov-2024 21:32

mdf: Noisy floor solutions depend a little on whether it is a creak, squeak or groan (i.e., what is causing the noise).

Also if you're worried about ninjas sneaking in during the night you may want to keep the creaks, squeaks, and squawks.

neb

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#3311656 21-Nov-2024 21:38

mdf: The style of countersink you've got should be good; I don't have anything that nice, and tend to use either this or this (cheap) style.

Ah, no, don't get the latter style, unless you're countersinking totally grain-free MDF they'll chatter in the timber and produce an awful fluted hole. What you want is this style of countersink.

neb

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#3311657 21-Nov-2024 21:41

nicmair: I know is a personal preference thing and some folk and very strong views, (insert expect to be shot down with comments here 😁) but if your happy to pay $349 for Ryobi, for another $40 you could get an AEG kit, (and some would argue superior quality).

Both AEG and Ryobi are Techtronic Industries (TTI), so quite possibly the same thing.

alisam

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#3311697 22-Nov-2024 07:57

neb:

Both AEG and Ryobi are Techtronic Industries (TTI), so quite possibly the same thing.

I didn't know that and did a bit of digging and came across this web page: Power Tool Manufacturers and Who Really Owns Them - 2024

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#3311701 22-Nov-2024 08:13

neb:

Both AEG and Ryobi are Techtronic Industries (TTI), so quite possibly the same thing.

Just because they're both owned by TTI it’s unlikely they're the same. Companies like TTI have different brands to provide product differentiation at different price points.

For example, everyone knows VWs are Audis with plastic pistons and gears.

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alisam

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#3311828 22-Nov-2024 12:00

nicmair:

I know is a personal preference thing and some folk and very strong views, (insert expect to be shot down with comments here 😁) but if your happy to pay $349 for Ryobi, for another $40 you could get an AEG kit, (and some would argue superior quality).

AEG 18V 2 Piece Brushless Sub Compact Combo Kit - Bunnings New Zealand

It looks like the majority of the Bunnings stores don't have any stock for the AEG combo above and have replaced it with this combo (for an extra $10 and only 1 battery): AEG 18V Brushless Sub-Compact 2-Piece 4.0Ah Kit - Bunnings New Zealand.

If you turn up to purchase at one of their event nights, you should get another battery (but not equivalent). See: Black Friday Events | AEG Powertools NZ

concordnz

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#3311843 22-Nov-2024 13:17

neb:
nicmair: I know is a personal preference thing and some folk and very strong views, (insert expect to be shot down with comments here 😁) but if your happy to pay $349 for Ryobi, for another $40 you could get an AEG kit, (and some would argue superior quality).

Both AEG and Ryobi are Techtronic Industries (TTI), so quite possibly the same thing.

That's out of date, - and Wrong.
Kyocera purchased Ryobi in 2017/2018

neb

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#3311847 22-Nov-2024 13:47

concordnz:
neb: Both AEG and Ryobi are Techtronic Industries (TTI), so quite possibly the same thing.

That's out of date, - and Wrong.
Kyocera purchased Ryobi in 2017/2018

Only their don't-care market areas. Aus/NZ (alongside the US, Europe, ...) are TTI.

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