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neb

neb

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#319146 27-Mar-2025 15:02
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Starting a new thread since the previous one was from 2021, as per this thread it looks like we'll need to get a new HWC, in fact it's surprising the current one has held up so well.  It's a low-pressure Rheem 135L from 1984, the current thing to use seems to be mains-pressure, and since there's no plans to sell up at any point it'll be whatever's the longest-lived one.  From the Rheem warranty info that's either a SS (mains-pressure only so no choice there) or a VE.

 

Other info, the house is on a solar ESS so a lower-power element would be a good thing so it can heat gradually off solar only rather than draining the batteries, and hot water consumption is minimal, just short showers on a low-flow head and nothing else.  There's the option of flash heaters but they don't seem very compatible with an ESS because of their higher current draw when operating.

 

One other thing would be a thermostat pocket to drop a DS18B20 or similar to monitor things via HA, if I'm going to shell out thousands of dollars for a replacement I'd like to not be using century-old technology to handle the temperature.


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johno1234
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  #3357866 27-Mar-2025 15:28
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How about an outdoor sited monoblock heat pump HWC? They work well with solar and you get an indoor cupboard back.

 

If you switch to mains pressure you may need to replace pipes and mixers throughout the house.

 

 




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  #3357868 27-Mar-2025 15:29
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Answering my own question, Rinnai at least advertise a solar probe pocket so it looks like you can fit their ones with temperature sensors.


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  #3357869 27-Mar-2025 15:39
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johno1234:

 

How about an outdoor sited monoblock heat pump HWC? They work well with solar and you get an indoor cupboard back.

 

If you switch to mains pressure you may need to replace pipes and mixers throughout the house.

 

 

There's nowhere to put the HWC outside, and plenty of storage room inside so no need to reclaim the cupboard.  The main thing will be mains vs. low pressure, but it looks like Rinnai do low-pressure stainless which would fit the bill.




tweake
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  #3357891 27-Mar-2025 16:29
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go mains pressure. 

 

i did it a little while ago and its great. didn't have to change the shower mixer as it was a cheap all pressure model anyway. washing machine needed the hot setting adjusting (as i had the flow restriction removed for the low pressure). 

 

if you go to a dual element cylinder, you can swap one element out and fit a dc element to run off the solar.

 

or if you have enough use, go to a heat pump version. imho a split model is better if using an indoor tank. 


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  #3357903 27-Mar-2025 16:43
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The only reason for not going mains pressure is that it may mean replacing a lot of the fittings, so it'll require getting advice from a plumber on whether it's possible.  Also if it's not a direct swap low -> mains I'm not seeing any really compelling reasons for replacing lots of things apart from "you can run two hot taps at the same time", which will never be the case.

 

Can anyone recommend a decent one on the lower North Shore?  NoCowboys has way too many results for this area.


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  #3357905 27-Mar-2025 16:46
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You can run a mains pressure cylinder at low pressure. Low pressure uses less water, therefore less energy to heat, and no requirement to replace tapware and possible pipework.


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  #3357911 27-Mar-2025 17:06
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Yeah, running low pressure in a mains pressure cylinder is fine. Your existing cylinder is probably copper, which can only handle low pressure.

 

It's debatable whether low pressure uses less water; it all comes down to shower heads and tapware. Mains pressure can get you a more forceful shower for the same amount of water. Low pressure needs to use lots of flow to get the same effect. 

 

 

 

Stay away from vitreous enamel steel if possible. You won't get 40 years out of it. Life is partly related to how frequently the sacrificial anodes are changed and virtually no-one in NZ does. 

 

 

 

Most new cylinders come with a 3kW element but lower-power options are easy enough to order and get swapped.


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  #3357924 27-Mar-2025 17:58
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neb:

 

The only reason for not going mains pressure is that it may mean replacing a lot of the fittings, so it'll require getting advice from a plumber on whether it's possible. 

 

 

i would be interested to hear what they say because i don't see why any fittings would need replacing. maybe if seals are heavily worn and need replacing. typically the main problem one is the shower mixer and only if you have the really good ones which uses a venturi to help suck in hot water. most of the all pressure ones just need adjusting which is simple.


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  #3358061 27-Mar-2025 22:16
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The MCB has just tripped again so it's definitely a goner.  I'll post updates as they become available, but ATM it's looking like a Rinnai SS fitted with a 2kW element and temp sensor pocket.


Handle9
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  #3358071 27-Mar-2025 23:31
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johno1234:

 

How about an outdoor sited monoblock heat pump HWC? They work well with solar and you get an indoor cupboard back.

 

If you switch to mains pressure you may need to replace pipes and mixers throughout the house.

 

 

You need to use a lot of water for them to make any economic sense. The life is almost guaranteed to be a fraction of the life of a resistive cylinder as you are replacing an element and a tank with a compressor and refrigerant. They make sense in some situations but the economics don’t stack up today for most. 


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  #3358078 28-Mar-2025 01:38
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As a general rule, it is hard to make the business case for a heat pump hot water cylinder work on a house with solar.

My suggestion is to go with a fairly big cylinder with duel elements. Bottom one gets wired to a Solar PV diverter (or just a simple timer which means the cylinder reheats in peak solar hours). Top element is wired to 24/7 power, and will keep the top bit (60L in case of the 180 liter cylinder) hot 24/7, while allowing the bulk of the water to stay cold so it can soak up your solar power the next day. Below is Rheem, but most brands do duel element cylinders. 





 

I also would advise upgrading to mains pressure.


 
 
 

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neb

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  #3358079 28-Mar-2025 01:52
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I've got the HWC power controlled by HA and, with a cylinder with a thermal probe pocket I can use that to dump excess solar into it as required.  The advantage of staying with the 135L is that it'll just slide in to replace our existing one, and our low hot water usage doesn't really make a much large cylinder too useful.  Definitely agree with the mains-pressure one, another comment (off-list) mentioned that apart from other considerations it's probably built a bit more solidly than a low-pressure one - the Rinnai mains-pressure SS claims (somewhere) a 20-year warranty which is way beyond the 5-10 years that others have.

 

Edited to add: Low-pressure is 120kPA, mains is 850kPA so a lot more substantially built than low-pressure.


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  #3358249 28-Mar-2025 15:05
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An update after a lot of phoning round, looks like the 180Ls have sensor pockets while the 135Ls don't.  Does anyone have any thoughts on keeping 180L heated vs. keeping 135L heated?  That's the only real concern, particularly during winter will it use up a lot more of the limited solar to keep an unnecessarily large quantity of water hot?


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  #3358252 28-Mar-2025 15:28
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Wouldn't expect so. I think buried in the documentation there should be a statement about daily heat loss for each model. 

 

A cylinder wrap is never a bad idea, of course. 


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  #3358256 28-Mar-2025 15:36
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Hmm, looking at the MEPS data it looks like you're right, for a 135L it's maybe 1.4kW, for a 180L maybe 1.6kW.  Haven't found any Rheem figures yet, these are MEPS values.


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